Geoff and Georgie chat about how they handle their work hours, boundaries, and self-care to keep a good work-life balance. Geoff logs off at 5pm every day, while Georgie has a history of 6pm finishes and not obeying her own boundaries. They also discuss the idea of a four-day workweek.
✍🏻 View the transcript for this episode on our website.
Geoff and Georgie chat about how they handle their work hours, boundaries, and self-care to keep a good work-life balance. Geoff logs off at 5pm every day, while Georgie has a history of 6pm finishes and not obeying her own boundaries. They also discuss the idea of a four-day workweek.
P.S. Don’t ask why the previous episode was released and backdated shortly before this one. 😛
Email us: toastroastpod@pm.me
Geoff 0:00
Hi and welcome back to another episode of Tesla as I am your co host, Jeff and I are here with Georgie. Gotta get through insurance real fast. Really?
Georgie 0:18
When someone complains,
Geoff 0:21
know what? We're just spending too much time on interest.
Georgie 0:27
The interest supposed to be like two seconds?
Geoff 0:30
Yeah, I don't know. No Yeah, I mean, our last few episodes have been a little a little a little longer so I feel like I have to compensate for the
Georgie 0:40
compensation, we just have to record the
Geoff 0:47
Yeah, it's like, Hey, don't work outside your hours? She can
Georgie 0:53
do you? Okay, so I'm going to assume that sometimes you have worked outside hours because you had to complete something. Am I right? To make that assumption? No. So you say, like, you like five on you
Geoff 1:08
on tour twice. Okay, fine. Like once or twice. Like consulting. That was that was like once when I mean, it's actually surprising that I made it only once. Almost three years of consulting, and I only had to, like work late once. So
Georgie 1:30
even pretty not out of consulting you. If you're finishing a problem at like, 450 you like basically you've just never worked overtime, even out of your own volition. You're like, hey, I really I really need to finish this thing. And like, oh, no, you just Yeah, five o'clock and you fucked up.
Geoff 1:50
I just Yeah. I just like leave.
Georgie 1:54
I'm very surprised. I realised I've never talked.
Geoff 1:58
I'm, I'm, I'm pretty I'm pretty good at clocking off at five, I either stopped the tasks that I'm doing at 430 and rapa, just so I wrap up at 430. So don't go to five. When I do go over five, it's more like I like law of averages. I've clocked off at 430 a few times and going over five is like basically, like negligible. So, yeah, yeah, so I don't math my time. But I know that you know, ticket I've taken longer, I've taken long and I've taken taken long lunches or I just clocked off early. Because I'm tired or whatever. And like one or two times or even five times going over five to 530 is like averaging moralists.
Georgie 3:03
You're a man that was fixed within boundaries. Just like I feel like shit. It's four o'clock. Let's go.
Geoff 3:12
Yeah, exactly. I take I take great liberties in my flexible working hours.
Georgie 3:19
Oh, like so do i But I have an I feel like, because I don't talk about this with too many people other than people who are like me, who are like, Oh, no, I must finish this problem. It is almost five but I don't care. I'm going to try and finish this problem. And you're like, two hours later? I knew like, Oh, fuck. I mean, like, I generally not a tonne of consistency. Like because like, my work is pretty flexible. So I totally can, like bugger off at 3pm If I want to, whether that is because I'm feeling unwell or because I have an appointment that like I have no Jeremy I have no problems with being able to book appointments during work hours. But I feel like I deal with this guilt. Why not it not be evened out or whatever. So?
Geoff 4:19
Yes, I mean, I seem to have destroyed that guilt. Right from the beginning. Just
Georgie 4:25
don't even have it.
Geoff 4:27
Yeah, I mean, when I was in consulting, I was very common that people would stay late and say hi, how do you get paid? I get no you don't get paid by the hour. Okay, so you get paid a salary. So it really isn't worth your time. And even even if it's like you know the guilt of everyone staying behind what you got. You just got used to that. It just got you I got used to it. So if they want to stay behind they can, but I also know that I can finish my work in it by like, the deadlines or, you know, if I can't and that's just their fault for not not sizing it correctly or either either even my fault for not sizing it correctly, because I usually get asked, Well, how long do you think this will take? Or how many story points is this bullshit? And? Yeah, so yeah, I think I've done a pretty good job. What
Georgie 5:32
about work? So like, normally, quote, unquote, the working days, like nine to five. But when I started working in this industry of like tech, which is what's basically my whole career, right? So I don't really mean when I
Geoff 5:49
was coming up to 16 years. How about you?
Georgie 5:51
I can't do maths, but I think I got my first job at the end of 2011.
Geoff 6:02
Not even freelance.
Georgie 6:04
I'm talking about I was employed by someone I did. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I
Geoff 6:11
guess by playing time professional Korea is shorter. This is probably like, yeah, because to yours. Yeah. But at the first place, it's no there's no, I didn't take any do summer break or whatever, Gap Year whatever, between uni and between high school and uni. I got my job straight out of uni.
Georgie 6:35
I was in uni. And then I did a master's degree. And so I was working my whole life. Do my hours at work, run to the uni for fucking lectures or whatever. Because they were because the master's degree is like what catered towards people who actually already working so the classes were all in the evenings. Anyway, at that first place I worked. The hours were like, nine to six. And I was a little bit like, as a How old was I? 1920 21. I was like, what he grew up thinking, working nine to five was my boss was like, we work until six. And I'm like, as a naive like person in their 20s I was like, What am I supposed to do not eat my dinner at five at my desk. And then at six o'clock I'd run to the uni and be like, I've been tired. So everyone time class starts at six. Should have afforded Yeah, rotation anyway.
Geoff 7:39
I guess my first job was at a digital agency in like Newcastle and they have a quite a different working. Work ethic, I suppose. Much more relaxed. Yeah. Yeah, more relaxed and chill. So they were even though they were digital, that when they were an agency, normally, because predominantly print agency, the print designers would be under the crunch. And the were like the web department have to was sort of not under the crunch as much. So and I had been doing front end for like five years prior to this. So loads, like, I'm pretty efficient. I think. I just knocked off at five. And my manager was like, yeah, just go. It's kind of like instilled a whole Hey, this is golf and go leave at five, maybe. Just don't worry about it. Don't worry about time.
Georgie 8:42
I do want to know why this like end work at six came from especially in the tech kind of space. Like I never heard of this. So I know retail is different. Like my mom works in retail and has for many, many years. It's clearly different. Like you kind of have to stay back off to the shops and stuff. And then you got to do late Thursday nights in Australia, most of in several parts of Australia. The shopping night is like Thursday. Anyway, yeah. So the first job I had that little agency finish at six. And then I got my next job at like a bigger startup. And that too was finished at 646 It would be odd the same sort of thing you're saying like Yeah, so I will This is really weird. To me. That was like the expectation they didn't explicitly say 6pm at that bigger startup, but that's what it was. And then I think after that was when I worked at high pages for three years, or three years, three three months but I was I think it was like finish at five and I was like oh my god I'm gonna get all this time back that like
Geoff 9:51
you realise you realise the hour they like but the earlier they let you off the Morse Tres you probably feel because you couldn't finish your bicep. Like you didn't have the power to do the work.
Georgie 10:08
Yeah, like you said it's first time you're hearing this so I'm like where did this 6pm come from? And like for my husband, Nick It's It's not unusual for him to fit like literally finish up at six. Or like just beforehand, like who normalises bullshit like people have to go people who have kids will have to go out and their families and shit and when exam again, they're all important question, when do you eat?
Geoff 10:38
Just told the story I had have thought so. Back when I did startups in San Francisco, there was no end to the day. Cuz I slept, I slept and worked at my boss's house. So I'll be working up until like 11 o'clock. And then and then I go to sleep and then I'd wake up, we talk about work. And then I can I continue working
Georgie 11:06
during this time, what the fuck is going?
Geoff 11:09
I mean, like, he had two very young kids, I think one was three and five. Yeah, one was three and one was five. And they would wake up at the crack of dawn and like, kill each other in the morning and I'd be in the next room trying to sleep and I'm okay. I guess I'm up. So may as well do work. Right. And it was like I was going there for work and not holiday. I don't I didn't have any friends to actually like take up my time I really had nothing else to do other than work. I wasn't too I'm not too interested in solo travel, oddly enough that I got flight and flown out there solo. So I had just like, and it was it was a crunch time. It was like two and a half months to complete something that was pitiable. And they spent a lot of money on me. Not that I felt obligated ingratiate it to them or something obligated, but yeah, it was like, okay, so they flew, they flew me and they gave me a laptop. And then, like, no one talked about anything but work. And I was like, oh, okay, well, I guess I'll complete this task or finish this UI or something like that.
Georgie 12:30
If you want to go out and get food, you could just go out and get food. Yeah,
Geoff 12:34
yeah, I could go get food and come back. And know this is where I eat. So it'll be where I sleep and eat and work. So the the other thing is that the other thought I had was this idea that we are working nine to five but also shops work nine to five.
Georgie 12:55
Oh my God.
Geoff 12:55
Have we talked about do you
Georgie 12:59
talk to my friend about this is she's originally from the UK. And she said, Wait. She's like, how do you go to the post office? This is the worst one. The worst example is or how do you go this? She's like, what if you want to the shops after work? I'm like, Yeah, I can't.
Geoff 13:16
Yeah, and then and then you have like a backlog of people going on the weekend. Like today, I went out to the shopping centre, the line out the door with full with, like auspiced. And it was just it just stayed that long for the entire day. Because it was so like no one because everyone just waits till the
Georgie 13:39
weekend when the post offices only until 1pm or something. Yeah, we have a parcel collection near us that used to be open on the weekends. And like people were outraged when they decided to only do weekdays. They were like the whole point, the whole point. But the benefit to the people in this area is that you could pick it up on the weekends, pick up your stuff on the weekends, because otherwise, weekdays it's just nine to five. Although like the past couple of days, I missed parcels. So I went there. Like I think one time. Yeah, it was like 455 and I went then the queue was like out the door. Like they move pretty quickly. Maybe I should check maybe they actually closed at like 530 or six but I'm guessing a lot of people finish work early and just try and get there before fives can pick up their parcels.
Geoff 14:31
Yeah, when I used to live in a parcel locker location, like location was like right across the road, so it's convenient. The post office here is too small to hold any parcels. It's just yeah, it's just the post office. Guess where it goes if I missed the parcel to the next post office, train stop. Yeah, that's frustrating stuff away. So I like travel like 510 minutes away. Just Like 1215 minutes probably round trip just to get like fossil if I miss it so so that's a bit of shitty thing to have to do. But that's the glory of working from home. This is a don't have to miss apostle ever anyways so the I actually spoke to this there's a bit of a weird story they have this like a chemist plus plus a lot of he's not he's not a news agents though. He's just the chemists plus a lot. Oh,
Georgie 15:40
it's primarily a chemist pharmacy. Oh, yeah, but but you can buy a lotto okay, because like we have one near us that's like both and they're connected. Yeah,
Geoff 15:50
yeah. So this guy runs the chemist and like, the you can buy lotto at the at the cash out. But we should. I think I don't know how we strike these conversations. But here's here's like, something something. And then we got on this topic about, like five days. Like voting for four days a week? I don't know. We go on this weird tangent about about like politics and like, like, I think she's at odd. It's it's like only Thursday or whatever. All like, tomorrow's the last day of the week. I was like, oh, yeah, we should have four day workweeks. And then he goes, That sounds great. What will you do on on the on the fifth day? I'm like, no, no food four day work week for me, not for you. I'm gonna come to you on Friday.
And then he's like, Oh, right. Right, right. And then I'm like, Just throwing UBI while I'm at it, universal basic income. For those unfamiliar with the concept, it's just basic income, but you get like, everyone gets it without working.
Georgie 17:10
Which is and concept for people who struggle to find employment? Or like, yeah, people, hopefully off the streets
Geoff 17:20
and stuff like off the streets. It's got a lot of benefits Barcelona, like nuanced columns, I guess. Like you could say, oh, I don't know if the who's going to, you know, serve me at MCAS. If they don't if they don't want to work there.
Georgie 17:37
But nobody wants to work there. It's just like some jobs.
Geoff 17:43
Well, yeah, exactly like, so the I guess the benefit is that no one has to work to survive. And then Thus, you won't get unhappy employees. Because anyone who's employed would actually want to work there. Because they have a choice. I guess it's a concept. Yeah. And no homelessness. But at the same time, you're like, Okay, there's some shitty jobs out there who would want to, like work the shitty jobs that we
Georgie 18:13
need? Jobs, because where I last heard of UBI, universal basic income is in this book called bullshit jobs, which my friend recommended to me. And it's kind of like, it talks about various jobs that are in society that when you think about it, you realise they're not really needed, and they're just there for someone to just tick boxes and shit. Yeah, and then, but then you're like, saying that something like McDonald's where no one really wants to work is like, who's gonna if people if we have people have money, who's going to want to work there as it because it's an enjoyable, but some people see that kind of, like those kinds of jobs where you're helping people less bullshit. Yeah, ones where you're in an office, and you're just have to, like, do paperwork for the sake of paperwork. Yeah,
Geoff 19:07
exactly. So yeah, I think there's definitely people out there who loves the service industry. I don't know how much Japan loves the service industry as much as they like, I feel like you know, the reality is that you go to Japan and everything is like super customer friendly. And there's often the idea that often the concept of like the T face, Japanese, who are just polite for the sake of being polite, but they but they don't actually feel that way. In any case. My point is, I guess, because it's pitched as universal basic income. So it's just enough for you to live water, gas electricity. How House and food. Right? And
Georgie 20:03
if you wanted to do something that you actually enjoyed, and then happened, exactly, then you'd be like, Yeah, I can do that. And people feel the kind of freedom to do that. Because they've already got money to like,
Geoff 20:15
survive. The basics are covered. And then if you want to do anything extra, like have holidays, you have to work.
Georgie 20:27
Yeah, because you want to earn more money to engage in luxurious like stuff.
Geoff 20:34
Yeah, so what you end up working for is your dreams.
Georgie 20:40
Like, fuck this shit. Yeah.
Geoff 20:45
I mean, that's the that's the like, the pink and versus like rosy unicorn life?
Georgie 20:52
And how would you Yeah, like,
Geoff 20:54
yeah, you'd have to essentially, I think, like housing, you have to solve housing. If government owns it, then we just end up being a dictatorship. Or like, communism is basically communism, if you end up like, not letting the free market dictate, like prices, and you just like, oh, you can't charge that much for our house, because then universal basic income would have to go up. Yeah, and, you know, all sorts of inflationary things going on. But anyway, so not a political channel. So, like, I like basically said, Oh, four day workweeks and universal basic income or solve this, like solve this, like cold? Yeah, he was he was like, Oh, you're speaking my language? I'll vote for you.
Don't know, do we have mayor's here? Yeah. Wait, hang on. I think we do have mayor's but then not the district or representative isn't like Minister Member of Parliament, Parliament or whatever. Like I know, the mayor's art.
Georgie 22:12
Because he does, like, some shit. Yeah, like I on mobile office. He's like, come and talk to me. And I'm like, Oh, nothing to talk to you about, like nothing against you. But
Geoff 22:25
let's get into let's get into work, open office meetings. What do you mean? Do you go to them? What
Georgie 22:33
do you mean by open office meeting?
Geoff 22:36
So there is a concept where you have a slot of time, every week with a team that is basically an Open Office. So you can go to that meeting? It's optional, you get at that meeting to either ask questions or learn more, you know, about that team? I mean, I'm
Georgie 22:59
trying to think is there another word for it? Well, this sounds very similar, actually. To the, like, the NP the mental. Yeah, like just having Yeah, come up to me ask question. Well, is it similar to, like an AMA, with like, pretty much in the company pretty much laying the company because like, we have those with, like, sea level peeps.
Geoff 23:22
It's like, yeah, I guess, I guess it is kind of like a name and an AMA. Yeah, but I mean, our team has opened up open hours, we used to have various open office hours for various other like, various things. So we had, but this was before my time, but they had advocates for the design system. And that was like a member of all of the No, that's not it. So we launched something and we wanted to shoot, like support and have people like, asked questions about it, and we just had an open office hours. But the downside is that you have a member of your team, or members of your team locked in a meeting for one hour without anyone coming. Okay. That's like, what
Georgie 24:16
is? Is that the benefit of it? Like it's a chance to ask some questions about Yeah, something in place of that, that I think is similar, and it's like this monthly thing called Tech showcase where it's for everybody. Yeah, they work. It's the annoying thing is it started as in the office like before, like COVID and we lost our office, because no one was using it. It started as a very casual kind of thing. Like he is literally we're working on very Work in Progress kind of stuff. And they would have like candy and like snacks around and then people would like rotate between the different groups to see like so they'd have to do. Or at least someone in the team would ever present the thing like once in the maybe they take turns but you'd have to present it several times as people rotated. And it ended up being like maybe four or five rounds. And it was just good to ask and chat and be like, Oh, cool. That's great, what you're working on, like, I want to find out more like have a little chat, ask questions and stuff like that. And now we do it on the Zoom. And unfortunately, it's less work in progress stuff and people feel the need to this is something we're investigating. Why is it like this? People feel the need to make it really polished. But then we go into like, zoom or like those huddles on Slack. And that's the opportunity questions. So instead of people just sitting there for hours waiting for people to enter, like an open office thing, I guess.
Geoff 25:37
We actually tried a blend, like that. work where we guess the showcase, but just for us, like we're actually showcasing what we've done, or like go over the release notes or something like that. So we were like, yeah, so So for, for other people to attend. So like, oh, first half of this is going to be shared, demoing what we've built, and getting feedback on what we build. And then the other half was like general questions. If you're having trouble, like using the components or whatever, design system things, then you can also ask that here. And yeah, we did that for a little bit.
Georgie 26:28
But you had I was like a regular thing.
Geoff 26:33
Yeah, it's a regular thing. Yeah,
Georgie 26:35
I think we're, like sort of past, like having as a regular thing, because things are pretty well established. So there's no need to have something like that too regularly. So we just have a channel where people can ask questions.
Geoff 26:50
Yeah, it really depends on Yeah, the maturity of the systems and things like that. We
Georgie 26:57
also have a session that's like every three weeks and three weeks is fucking weird as a cadence. But it's called product, product development, knowledge sharing. And it's just, it's kind of maybe that's why this showcase thing has become more of a polished, result kind of thing. Because this knowledge sharing session is good for, like, casually speaking about what things you're trying to solve, or things that people in other teams should be aware of. And then yeah, just kind of chat about it.
Geoff 27:29
Yeah, yeah. Either way, we ditched all of that, because, well, of course, attendance, like, kind of wanes. And
Georgie 27:42
yeah, do you ever, like run some of these meetings? And you're like, fuck, there's no people. And, like, for me, it's kinda like, I'd rather like not push something if people are clearly not coming to it, because they're not interested in finding useful whereas I've worked with some people who always want to continue to push and like, initiative. Yeah, like, I hate forcing it, because then it just ruins that. I mean, not saying it was fun in the first place, but it's very draining.
Geoff 28:12
Yeah, it's quite interesting. Actually, some people come in to just like, sticky beat,
Georgie 28:17
I am that as I am, like, I came for the banter, or I will create. Like, we I don't connect with people, like in many other contexts at work. So it's like, I like to see what people are up to and chat.
Geoff 28:32
Yeah, yeah. So so they, they they come in stinky big. And I was like, oh, did you have an actual question? Or do you just see it? It's listed and they go listen in. And when, when no one else comes? Like, oh, yeah, I guess I can show you something I'm working on? And that's the question. They had a question. But they didn't, you know, like, think of it as a question. You know, and you just say, Oh, I'm just showing you what I'm making. I don't actually have a specific question. But in showing us what they made, they will have very many questions like, like, Oh, why did you do it that way? You could do you could actually do it this way. And, and that's the advice that we are actually offering in these sessions. Is, is like, do you feel like you had to do anything weird work around hacks? Like, yeah, sure. Did basically share your work with us. And hopefully, we can make it more efficient or whatever. It's more it's like a fact finding mission for us as as much as sharing like our answering everyone else's questions. But yeah, with that said, we should get a four day workweeks and up. I
Georgie 29:56
don't know how I feel about four day workweek Have you thought much if you were to take a four day work week?
Geoff 30:06
No, just be a longer weekend.
Georgie 30:08
Yeah. Cuz like, there was someone I don't know if I want to name them, but you know them because they're from Perth. There was someone who did a four day workweek. And they said they actually chose like, most people think I'm gonna take Friday off, because it's a long weekend or Monday. It's a long weekend every week one like I guess, get a longer weekend. But this person's deliberately chose Wednesday. The reason they did that was because it was like a nice break during the week, but also like they could come back on the Thursday, and any unanswered questions that they had could be answered. It's just like, the way it works with if there are other people work in like five days.
Geoff 30:52
Yeah, I guess in that respect to a Monday would be better, because then you would wrap up the week. And then everyone's gonna go away. Like, on Friday, you wrap up the week on Friday, and then everyone's gonna go away for a really long period of time, and then come back and start fresh. Because, yeah, if you do Friday, then you have a bunch of questions on Thursday, and you can't answer them. Until, like, yeah, I don't know. It seems like a same gap. But mentality, like mental mentality. Well was. Yeah, I feel like if you lean into the whole idea that Friday is the last day of the week, consistently, then. Yeah, that might be Monday. Yeah, Wednesday seems like a good idea to Friday
Georgie 31:44
is like, I feel like very little happens on Friday in comparison to other days, like I remember particularly, particularly like, actually, I don't know why this doesn't happen anymore. Maybe because of like, just working remotely all the time now. But we used to, on Friday afternoons in the office play games from like, three or four. No one would do any work after three pretty much Oh, yeah, for sure. And it moved to online and didn't have like, let's play games at 3pm on Friday or whatever. And then now I've realised that that hasn't happened as much. I don't know why. Maybe it's just our team.
Geoff 32:27
Yeah, we always we try schedule. Like we have to do us at like, two to three, because we have someone in New Zealand.
Georgie 32:36
Okay. But you're gonna say yes to pick up the kids from school or something. Which is also
Geoff 32:41
Oh, no, we were all childless.
Georgie 32:45
Yeah, job like to take off a Friday. It just feels like it feels like a cop out. Because Fridays, generally blushing is very light. Yeah,
Geoff 32:55
to say, but yeah, that's true. Because if you're not doing any, if you don't, don't start any new work, or really do hard work on Friday, then then picking Friday seems like a waste. So I would take Monday, or Wednesday, I guess. I feel like I'd
Georgie 33:15
want to pick Thursday. Or Wednesday, Wednesday or Thursday.
Geoff 33:20
I used to go into the like, into the city to do work. Wednesday. Yeah,
Georgie 33:29
I do. And it's kind of ridiculous how many meetings I ended up having on a Thursday. And then when I'm in the way work, and I have those meetings, and then we go out and get coffees and lunch and stuff. I feel like I do fucking no work. And everyone else is the same. Just like I've done. No.
Geoff 33:50
I don't expect to do work when I go into an office works these days. Yeah, it's just, yeah, I've built the expectation that I won't do any work on, like, on Office days. And it's just a write off. So that's why I would pick Wednesday. Yeah, but I mean, we, when I use when I go to the city, and just like work out of wherever that, you know, does have some work involved. But not but not an office with other people. Do
Georgie 34:32
you ever get the urge to do work? Like on the weekend or outside of workout?
Geoff 34:40
Actually, like work on being paid for in hours? Well outside about Yeah,
Georgie 34:46
like normal, whereas in your nine to five job do you ever get like an urge to be like, Hey, I've got to solve that problem. And
Geoff 34:54
you're talking to the guy who, at five every day yeah,
Georgie 34:58
how do you do this?
Geoff 35:01
to reach an ultimate state reached an ultimate state? Yeah, I mean, there was, there was a couple of concerns floating around when I was in consulting, because I didn't work outside of hours very often. So they kind of perceived it negatively. But I didn't get like they can't fire me for doing my
Georgie 35:29
job. Has that happened? Since since because you're consulting? No, because
Geoff 35:34
after consulting, it was all product and product was like super lazy. So prime
Georgie 35:39
example of like, you know, they, no one cares that you actually I heard some, like someone say on a video or something, they said the only people are gonna remember that you worked like in like, 60 years time, our if relevant your kids, because they've, like, acted by like, oh, yeah, my parent is working. I remember them doing that in my childhood, yada yada.
Geoff 36:10
You could you could either it could swing either way, right? You could be seen as very hard working, and therefore your child grows up thinking like, Okay, I shouldn't be hard working in this like, necessary evil sometimes. Or they just grow up thinking that you were like, absolute. Like, finally
Georgie 36:31
you say that, because my mom worked really hard. Like she didn't work for a long period of time while I was young. And then she went back to work but she just to me, it looked like she was hustling. She was trying to get back into the workforce with after such a long time. So I saw it, I was like hustling. And then like, even, like, once I got to uni, she was working longer hours at her retail job to like, I don't know, to, I'm just gonna say to impress people, or to make it look like she was working hard. And then I adopted that in a really bad way. And so that's probably why I'm kind of like, still working on boundaries and shit. But yeah, that was I observed that and then like, on top of that my dad worked night shift for most of my life. So it I knew he wasn't absolutely right. But I knew he was always working hard. While I would be like sleeping.
Geoff 37:24
Yeah, I don't know how I took my life. Cuz as a kid, I didn't. For the first 10 years, like, I didn't see my dad for for like fortnight at a time. He he'd come home every fortnight. So I very rarely saw him. But Mom was stay at home mom, so mostly so mom. But I don't know how that fits into my current work ethic thinking. Because by that measure, I should be like, oh, man, it's no so super normal to work fortnight's at a time. Like don't stop
Georgie 38:10
for two weeks. You follow your mommy like I'm not gonna Yeah, this is
Geoff 38:15
home life's fine.
Georgie 38:19
Basically, income.
Geoff 38:20
Yeah. So but but then after we moved to Australia, that, that that like retired or semi retired, and then he was home all the time. And so as mom so the it's just like, now, he's here all the time. All right.
Georgie 38:39
Have any impact on you? And you just followed this? Yeah.
Geoff 38:45
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't even know how I decided like, Hey, you're not like companies are bullshit. They, they don't respect your time. You shouldn't respect their time or whatever. It's
Georgie 38:59
very true, like you hear overwork themselves and what they feel is no real, like recognition or gain. And yeah,
Geoff 39:08
and you'd like expecting recognition for overworking is also a bit of a fog.
Georgie 39:14
Like, yeah. perpetuating that it's good to work late. I now I'm very aware of when people do that. I'm like, don't do that.
Geoff 39:21
Yeah. Because because,
Georgie 39:25
like, you get paged for stuff. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah.
Geoff 39:29
Yeah, work is sort of like, you know, generally people like to praise other people for being really quick to respond really quick to do tasks. And that's pretty much like 80% of what, you know, publicly gets, gets praise for. You probably don't want to do that, because then generates a workplace of like, oh, because I because I got, you know, things done quickly. I'll get recognition but that's it right capitalism. I don't fault them for that. Because Because at the end of the day accompany you, you're trading your time for money and, and like it's fixed, fixed amount of time fixed amount of money. And you think about like, if you have deadlines, if you have deadlines, then that's it. You have deadlines, you have to meet the deadlines. And if going over the time fixed time that you have agreed to get paid for it's like, is like, what about people make
Georgie 40:31
it like they should make your coffee? Like, quickly, right? Because then you're like, Oh, that's good service.
Geoff 40:40
Super quick, slow.
Georgie 40:41
That's like
Geoff 40:48
Yeah, yeah, that's true. I mean, this is like, yes, service industry is obviously different. I mean, nowadays, if you take if you take longer, some people might respect you for it because you're like, oh, it's fresh. It's handmade. I'm it's worth the $25. I paid for this coffee. Like
you but for those not in local Australia. That's an exaggeration, but it's getting close to six six to $10 for a cup of coffee. So good
Georgie 41:24
filter coffee is like in the you can have 10 to
Geoff 41:28
that the problem is that coffee is now an art and people pay for art.
Georgie 41:32
Oh God we've taught I haven't we talked about
Geoff 41:37
anyways, NFT art I think we have. But yeah, that's that's time. Time for anyone. So boundaries. Jet. Yeah. I mean, I disrespected it 11 minutes ago. 12 minutes ago now. So I guess you can follow us on nothing. The email is test test versus pod@pm.me I think you think I remember the email. Yeah, don't email it because I only think you
Georgie 42:15
on Apple podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to your podcasts and the big boundary surrounding Jeff it's like an aura
Geoff 42:25
Yeah, yes. The agan never said every every Monday, so unless
Georgie 42:32
we take one day.
Geoff 42:37
I mean, if we take Monday off then we just record the episode on the Monday
Georgie 42:41
we went daily recording, nobody knows whatever it is. I
Geoff 42:45
mean, of course we recorded episodes on Mondays next week, bye bye.