Geoff’s interaction with a tradie leads the pair to share experiences with freelance work, and end with some some indifferent opinions about how much effort the podcast takes.
✍🏻 View the transcript for this episode on our website.
Geoff’s interaction with a tradie leads the pair to share experiences with freelance work, and end with some some indifferent opinions about how much effort the podcast takes.
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Geoff 0:09
And welcome back to another visit of Toast &. Roast. I am your co host Jeff. And as always, I'm here with chilli Georgie.
Georgie 0:19
Is that chilly as in like coal or spicy?
Geoff 0:23
It depends on which country you're in.
Georgie 0:27
It's cold over here. And we've had rain.
Geoff 0:31
Yeah, I was trying to get a handyman to come in and do a quote.
Georgie 0:35
stop you right there. How do you know is a handy man?
Geoff 0:42
Well, his name was Charlie, and then he could be a woman. He was a man. Yes, he identified as a new man. No, technically, he's an electrician, but does odd jobs. And basically, he was saying, so he was meant to do a quote, or come around to do a quote. And when he didn't show up, I was like, oh, like, was today? Not good day for you? We schedule right. And he's like, the job ran late because of rain. And then we rescheduled for the next day. And he was like, Job was running late again. Because of the rain. I'm like, Damn this rain. But yeah, oh, man.
Georgie 1:39
What are you gonna tell? I'm
Geoff 1:41
gonna tell a short, short version of this. Okay. It was like, so he came up and he's a friendly guy. And he was like, Oh, what do you do? And I was like, I'm a software engineer. And and then he this is that this hasn't happened to me a long time. But that someone spotted. I know, someone asks, oh, in the hospital? Yeah, everyone is basically like, because they get so many patients in, they ask exactly the same questions every single time. So I had to go for radiotherapy every morning for how long? Was it six and a half weeks? Five days a week. So the nurses there or the radio therapists were consistent in rotation. But every every time? They would, they would ask kind of like the same questions. Like what do you
Georgie 2:38
do? And even though you'd already talk to them?
Geoff 2:42
Yeah, yeah. Three week or four week mark where they were they maybe stopped asking. But today, like what do you do? How do you fire? Do you have to come? Is it traffic? You know, those type of questions anyways? But none of them actually do did what the like cishan or the handyman did, which was asked me about websites. Okay. You know, the general question that people ask is like, Oh, do you know how to build about about websites?
Georgie 3:17
Is it is he asked, was he asking from a make me a website? Like he want all the tech support? Like, it could have
Geoff 3:26
gone either way? And both of those things did come up? Well, the I was like, holding my breath for the phone. Right? Yeah. For those who don't know, this hasn't happened in a while. Yeah, for those who don't know, go ahead. Yeah. If
Georgie 3:47
it's a sort of common question that people who work in tech get asked, Can you build me a website because suddenly normies are not being offensive? I just mean, people who are not in tech often want to know, or they want, they want to have their own website. And they think, well, the the bad case is that they think they can ask their friends who work in tech to be able to do it for a cheap price or maybe even free and they don't have a lot of background knowledge on it. Or it's just the common thing that people want, because we're so online these days, and it's good for your brand and your business of your business to have a website.
Geoff 4:26
Yeah. So he asked me like, do you know about websites? And I'm like, Yeah, waiting for the waiting for the ball to drop. And he was he wasn't inquiring so much about making him a website, but his current one. The Pro The problem was that like notifications, were coming through on his text messages faster. In his email, and I'll say, okay, that's kind of a confusing sentence. And then he went into it. And it turns out he coupled his web hosting with his email service provider. Yes. I saw he equated
Georgie 5:20
as in his web hosting is his email service provider. Yeah. Okay.
Geoff 5:25
Yeah. So so he quit equated like, the website with with his emails, which is fair.
Georgie 5:35
Even though that's technically not, yes,
Geoff 5:37
actually. Yes. Yeah. So so it was basically a tech problem.
Georgie 5:43
So it wasn't that like he was getting a notification for his email on his phone. And he was like, oh, no,
Geoff 5:49
he's getting a text message from a service that, you know, sends out his text messages for leads. And service actually sends them an email to wasn't
Georgie 5:58
the place I used to work at. Without No. Similar Oh, no, no, it is it is. Oh, it is to people listening, be looking at my LinkedIn.
Geoff 6:11
But even high pages would send him an email. And then that that was the exchange would send him him an email, like, an email notification to his phone. And the same exchange, you know, it's funny,
Georgie 6:26
I worked there for text message for a few months, it was a short, like, I was there. Don't
Geoff 6:33
ask her about,
Georgie 6:34
you know what, I didn't even work on the high pages products. They put me in classic, this is what happens to me. I think, like, since I left uni, I feel like I was always put in. Well, what a team was called at high pages was business transformation, which meant you're working on a product that was either like acquired or bought or like an older product that needed to be like overhaul. And I worked on natural therapy pages and pet pages, which had not had any love for years, because the focus was on high pages, but that those two pet pages and natural therapy pages were the earliest like, like, that's how the business started. The founders started with that. So high pages was like the third one. Yeah, so it's just interesting. And then at print at a previous job, I was also on I was put on a team that was overhauling something that they had acquired, not the main, like I was on the main product first, and then I went on the Yes. I just find that so
Geoff 7:46
no wonder you don't like product. What do you mean, like, just been stuck in hellscape? For for eight? Yeah, pretty funny doing doing pretty, like cleaning up other people? Yes, this
Georgie 8:00
quit? Yeah, that's what I felt like. So I think that's where anyway,
Geoff 8:05
I mean, in consulting, you either get to do the transformation project, but you build something brand new. And that's what we did what I did at Deloitte or you get put on the projects, which are done, like which are support, which means that you know, someone else, some someone else, or some other consulting firm, has done the job already, and collected a huge budget backlog, like that was de scoped during the project at Sun and you are the cleanup crew, which has to maintain other people's like development choices. So I'm, I was lucky enough to be on the transformation projects, and not any of the like, life support. Yeah, yeah. It was really weird. Actually, at the time. Deloitte Digital, which I worked for was winning a lot of the transformation projects, but not winning the afterwork not winning the life support work, was a good thing. I mean, it's, it's not great, because what you want to do is like develop that, you know, you do the project, and then you you gain the after work, and that's like infinite money for I have however long they, they keep you on for. So essentially, you get paid a lump sum, and then you get them in for its subscription. subscription for support. Anyways, so he was he was a nice guy, and a bit evasive, he was like, Okay, so one reason could be that you have coupled your email and your website together, because if they go down, they go down together. And if one receives traffic, more traffic, then they also interrupt each other's bandwidth perhaps. So, yeah, I mean, I give this give this advice I freely decouple your email hosting and your website hosting. And you wouldn't have a problem.
Georgie 10:20
I haven't done that, but I haven't had a problem. So call you. And you're gonna give me that exact advice. If I ever run into a problem.
Geoff 10:29
I mean, it depends on where you host, I guess. Named. Oh, okay, I'll direct him there. But I was basically going to put him on that live via which is $0
Georgie 10:42
Yeah, I
Geoff 10:45
your adverse to Google so you will change your email service to Google?
Georgie 10:49
Oh, absolutely. Okay.
Geoff 10:52
But he lost emails before he had lost a cold because he is actually well, while some so the person he is dealing with now owns a server. Okay, and then he's like, it needs like basically reselling. So that person is in the UK. Okay. And that's probably why the emails are so damn slow to Australia.
Georgie 11:20
minds in the EU are pretty sure my name cheap thing is in the US and I don't I just don't have a problem like email. Maybe
Geoff 11:25
you're not maybe you're not critical email. It's so
Georgie 11:29
funny because like yo, I work for like an email. I'm not I'm not supposed to call it Yeah, I'm not supposed to call it that anymore. Because apparently we're about like, gold
Geoff 11:44
your company got married gold so no, we are merit No, we
Georgie 11:48
didn't get acquired. That is us. Oh,
Geoff 11:50
that's your rebrand? Yes. Are you Are we
Georgie 11:53
talked about do we I don't know if we talked about on the pod. We we started as Campaign Monitor bought a bunch of brands and then rebranded entirely as marigold.
Geoff 12:05
So you umbrella company marigold. Oh, yeah. Okay, so marigold. For Google.
Georgie 12:14
Yeah. And then we've got
Geoff 12:17
Campaign Monitor and and earn see other products. But
Georgie 12:20
yeah, can’t. Yeah, pretty much because like now that most of our what is it? The businesses in the US? And we are like, I don't know what the word is. Anyway. We're not. We're not we're trying to move away from that definition of email marketing. It's more about relationship marketing.
Unknown Speaker 12:42
Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Reach. Yeah.
Geoff 12:48
I mean, yeah, it's a bit dicey.
Georgie 12:52
Because each of the, we have like, 878 products in our suite. And each of them actually cater to different like, you know, individuals or like businesses. So across all the products, we reach different areas. And so we've, we have an entire collection of things to suit different people's needs. So I don't know, it's got a range of sounds like what?
Geoff 13:21
Okay, all right.
Georgie 13:23
Done with a decent
Geoff 13:26
the engineer case. So that was like, kind of like a whole conversation. But yeah, it's it's a friendly guy. Right. He also asked me, and this is what started everything. Started the casual chat. He asked me why don't people like free quotes? Why do you think people don't like free quotes?
Georgie 13:51
So he said, that's definitely his opinion. He thinks people don't like frequent. Yeah,
Geoff 13:55
yeah. Because he's, he's lost leads because of like, offering free quotes. Now he's, I guess the tangential thing is that he's lost leads to people who do call out fees. And oh,
Georgie 14:09
okay. All right. So he gives free quotes. And yes, that's fine. Yeah, but then those people end up going with a
Geoff 14:18
person who does call out fees. So the assumption is, they don't like free quotes.
Georgie 14:22
Okay. Um, is this just a talking about in terms of his occupation, or in general? I mean,
Geoff 14:32
it's his occupation. So if a handyman came up to you, was like, reached out and said, Well, I'm willing to do your job, and I will do I'll come around and do a free quote for you. Okay,
Georgie 14:44
so firstly, I don't really have this. I wouldn't find myself in this scenario, because we do it through our rental agent, like this. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 14:56
sure.
Geoff 14:59
I'm trying you So so if you wanted to, if you wanted to hang something on the wall, you would have
Georgie 15:06
to ask permission if we wanted to put a nail in the wall otherwise, like we'd have. Because we can't, we can't really call the damage. We can't alter the property or whatever. But in cases like when there's something wrong, like an issue, like when we first moved in, one of the locks was broken. Like on the glass door, that one, she just said, to get the property manager said to order it ourselves. And she'd reimburse because it was easy to kind of fix that. But stuff like the shower doors, and then like my, you probably remember this my door, my room, where I'm recording this podcast from my office, like a home office. It was like, not closing. And it turns out because the door was too big for the frame. Because someone had tried it. Yeah, they the rental agent, like, am I using the right terminology rental agent does whatever they sent someone out, like so we did it through them. And he came in and he fixed the door, had to take the entire door off and shave it down. And he said to me, whoever put this door here, like it's too big, they did it themselves. Like he thinks they even made the door themselves. And that's why it wasn't the door wasn't closing. Whereas like the property manager was under the impression that it was like expansion and heat and stuff. And I'm like, Dude, we've been here for six months, the doors closed. It looks fine. So yeah, it was actually like too big for the fuckin doll.
Geoff 16:34
Yeah. Anyway,
Georgie 16:37
um, well, I
Geoff 16:40
guess I guess equate, you can equate it to freelancing. So if they would do, like, have like a website for free? I mean, I mean, I guess it's not website for free. Really? It's like it's free. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they'll do a consultation for free for website. I mean, it also doesn't really work for us, because we don't do we don't get consultations for websites. We are the consultation. Yeah.
Georgie 17:09
When I did freelance stuff, I'd have like, maybe some what fixed prices for certain jobs that are like that, that's that's the job. And otherwise, I'd have an hourly rate. And that's what I did. Maybe it's because when you maybe because people have the input, customers have the impression that they pay someone to give them a quote, they'd be more dedicated, or they have a bit of trust somehow compared to someone who's just like, I get free quotes. And yeah, like maybe they don't feel that much like trust that they would put a lot of effort in could be a perception thing.
Geoff 17:55
I basically said that. I mean, I don't, I'm not adverse to free quotes, obviously, because he was coming here to give me a free quote. But I basically said the same thing that's like, cheap, cheap is bad. That's like, if you're free, then you know, it could be shady. Or, like, I'm just going to go pay the person 20 $30. Because they apparently value their time and value their expertise more. Okay.
Georgie 18:27
So like, on a related note, I remember going to, you know, this group on coupons, like we can get an experience for like a discounted price or something like that, or, yeah, I remember a really long time ago when I was with my ex, so this would have been like 15 years ago, or something like that, maybe even longer. We had a Groupon voucher for a free like, I don't know if it was a buffet or like a multicourse meal at a Greek kind of club, like restaurant, it was like, not fancy, just maybe, you know, mid, whatever. I don't know how much it was worth, but it was free. And there was so much food, and it was really good. And he felt bad. Like, my ex felt bad that it was free. Like, yeah, and they were just like, thank you so much for they were so nice. Because, you know, I mean, I think it's a common knowledge that Greek people are just really friendly and nice. And so the people they're like, they just serve us like they insert anybody else in the place. And at the end, they were just like, thanks so much for coming, whatever. And my ex was just he was just like, he had to give him some money so I think he gave him like 20 bucks because he was just like, I can't get like even though we got this a group on and it was free like it's just yeah, I don't know if they're just testing it out or something. I don't know. Like, I can't even remember it was a long time ago. Yeah,
Geoff 19:47
yeah. I do have a friend that was uncomfortable with taking my bag for free.
Georgie 19:51
Oh, yeah. Yeah,
Geoff 19:55
I had so the first time I sold the bag, they they were Are they? They don't know, I charged them. I remember now it's like having to not know 20 bucks 250 It's like half the retail. And they're like, Okay, I'll take it. But then for the second bag as I was just willing to give it away for free. And they were like, No, I have to give you some money. Okay,
Georgie 20:25
can I ask like, oh, I don't know if this is a bit too personal. But I started thinking of the kinds of people who don't want to take it for free. I feel like I'm more privileged position and might have, like, being a higher paying job is what I think I've noticed.
Geoff 20:42
Oddly enough, this is not the type of person they were. Ah, okay.
Georgie 20:46
All right. Take back my theory.
Geoff 20:50
I think it's just sort of like, would you wouldn't you wouldn't do you wouldn't take someone's profession for free. Like, it's just sort of a bit awkward. I know that people generally, friends would try and do and take your professional, you do
Georgie 21:10
that you're not a very good friend.
Geoff 21:14
So this is my friend, and they were like, I'm not going to take your bag for free. Yeah, okay. 50 bucks. And then I refuse to give them my bank details. But I caved.
Georgie 21:28
Someone genuinely wanted to basically buy the bag from you rather than Yeah, no matter how,
Geoff 21:33
like how nominal of how nominal the price was. But yeah, don't don't take other people's professional free. It makes it very weird. It's
Georgie 21:45
kind of on call. It's like uncomfortable, I would
Geoff 21:49
say. So, so basically, when, when the handyman was asking me to, or how to do this stuff, or like, how much? How much all this stuff usually cost? I asked how much is hosting and email things? Yeah. And I was like, I can basically make that $0.
Georgie 22:14
What did you say? What what did you suggest? Is that what you said?
Geoff 22:18
Yeah, because you can just deploy all the files and Netlify Netlify charges by quant like quantity. Or like, good
Georgie 22:25
advisor because like I've never really used it just because I'm yeah, my alter name too. But
Geoff 22:33
they do WordPress instals. Anyways, I
Georgie 22:35
installed it myself. Well, that's the other thing right when I was oh, nella
Geoff 22:39
phi doesn't instal it for you. They just couldn't make that
Georgie 22:43
note though. On that note, though, like, actually, this was a thing when like back in, back in back in my day, like in the blogging community, when people started like freelancing and making their own businesses and stuff. They would be people who literally didn't know how to instal WordPress, they just wanted to pay someone to do it for them. And so us, like, you know, just, bloggers looking for a little bit of coin would be like, Oh, I'll instal a thing for you. And it'll cost like 10 bucks or 15, which, you know, back in 2009, was a lot of money. So, yeah, people did. And I think my friend, she was like, without saying too much, she was a bit strapped for cash, like about her personal situation. He was a bit strapped for cash. And she was like, Oh, I'm gonna, like charge some of these people. Like start offering installing WordPress as a service to some clients, because like, some of them don't even know. And they'll pay they will say,
Geoff 23:37
it's honestly like, okay to make people pay for that, because technically, you've learned something that other people aren't willing to learn themselves or just outright have no interest of learning. And this is the same with handyman. They actually don't do are other electricians are different. Because I mean, you have to be qualified to be electrician. But hanging stuff, and mounting things. And I don't know fixing holes and walls are all things you can learn from a YouTube video if you really learn it from like, yeah, exactly. If we really wanted to save money, then I mean, like,
Georgie 24:16
altering clothes, right? Like I used to take while I still do sometimes if I wanted to, like make my pants legs shorter or whatever. Yeah, I couldn't do it. If I had a sewing machine and I have one. Like, I can fix little holes and stuff like that. But some people go and get that stuff done by somebody else who has done
Geoff 24:34
but it's really it's really down to your time, right? If you if you want if you want that skill, and you're happy to figure it out yourself. I've changed door handles and installed them incorrectly. That's all me. But the fact is that I kind of learned to do it myself and didn't have to call a locksmith. And then figure it out. But now that I've installed it incorrectly, I do have to get the handyman to fix it. But the whole whole idea is sort of like Yeah, well, I mean, if you don't think it's worth your time to fix or learn to fix it, then it's worth someone else's time.
Georgie 25:19
I mean, we do delivering get dry cleaning, or people ironing your clothes if you don't if you get your own but your clothes I and I know you don't because you don't need to. Yeah, I used
Geoff 25:33
to go down to laundromat and not the one that you put coins in. But a person actually launders Yeah. Yeah. And that was great. You pay them like $25 for
Georgie 25:47
your entire everything's fresh and clean and stuff. Yeah, you
Geoff 25:51
go pick it up. It's nice. And if it's if they see anything that needs special attention, they'll do it automatically, and then charge you for it later, which is also nice. Like, if you chuck in something that needs dry cleaning. Don't do that. But they'll they'll like what the lookout for your clothes, essentially. Yeah. Which was super nice.
Georgie 26:14
Is there anything you've come across? That's like, why would someone pay for that as a sort of like a weird thing? Or that you thought of that dog walking? i A friend of mine does that because because they have cancer, or a dog and they're just busy. And so a couple of days, I think.
Geoff 26:33
Yeah, I think anything, any job can be justified as long as they're not child labour. So yeah, the anyway, so I'm getting a bunch of stuff done. Mainly like light switches, which are going to become smart. So that, yes, I can change the turn on and off the lights, of course, from my phone. The thing is that this apartment has much more expensive downlights then the previous was just the light bulbs. So yeah, so we have like maybe, like 1015 downloads. And to get a good Smackdown like would be 60 to $70 each.
Georgie 27:17
I can't remember how much your house was, but we had to, like it's our responsibility is renting was places we have to replace any like dye during out.
Geoff 27:27
So I say I think if you get a regular downlight it's like maybe 10 or $15. And those are even more expensive than regular light bulbs. Because light bulbs are like two to five, like five to
Georgie 27:38
just realise I do not remember. Last time I purchased
Geoff 27:45
a light bulb. Yeah, that mean LED light bulbs are also a thing. What?
Georgie 27:50
Okay, so we have we have two?
Geoff 27:54
Yeah, my bulb and 15. Yeah.
Georgie 27:58
We have two lamps in the bedroom just on each side of the bed. And they're just I think that they're just the traditional light bulbs. Yeah. But then I think that's it. Like, we've got downloads. And then I think we have one light in Nick has one in his study, but I'm not sure that that isn't normal, classic light bulb. I think that might be a different one. Yeah.
Geoff 28:22
Anyway, so there's 15 of them, and 15 times 60 is X amount of dollars. And I was like, You know what, let's just swap out all the switchbot like the switches themselves, because that would be I mean, that's still 10 switches. But it was, it's much cheaper in the long run. To me. If if I need to change a light bulb it can be it'll be 10 There'll be 10 $15 versus switching out a smart light bulb, which is $60 or $70. Anyways, so that's like the bulk of the work. And then we just got a bunch of random odd jobs for him to do after Oh, I'm getting a new door lock because I packed up the handle installation. And yeah, it's a smart deadbolt and says Yeah, I figured that would be easier to replace when I leave. And it works on the Apple Home key. So home key or home. Yeah, yeah. So Apple has a digital key now and you can hold your watch up to the lock and unlock Damn
Georgie 29:39
I wish I had.
Geoff 29:43
Yeah, so. So that's gonna be pretty, pretty cool. Because the previous one, we had to put our pin every time but this one has a fingerprint RFID pin, Apple Home key. It's just got it Got everything that you probably we will probably won't even have to, like, key anything in for a really long time. Nice and I forget my key a lot. So I don't know. I think that's an episode or two around how many times I lose my keys. Yeah, forget my keys.
Georgie 30:21
So like, you know how I was always like anti? You know, there's capsules where you put like your wallet and your keys and like kind of Yeah, I ended up getting a something like that, because I also like it and like, Oh, that's so fucking stupid like every, like now I realise that having that kind of stuff can be useful, especially like, after I got my ADHD diagnosis and I was like, Oh yeah, I do lose stuff. And it's because like, I just put them wherever. Whereas having a place to put stuff like helps. So my whole entire, like, minimalism bullshit phase and storage as a trap phase is actually like, against what might actually helped me not to lose.
Geoff 31:13
I mean, if you didn't have shit to lose, you wouldn't be able to lose.
Georgie 31:19
Smart
Geoff 31:22
games. Yeah, you should never replace your door lock. And that's it. Yeah.
Georgie 31:28
Do you have a place not to
Geoff 31:30
have a deadbolt? No, you don't have a deadbolt. That's why I that's I mean, I treated my last place like it was like because a rental. So I just like undid my, my my own lock, and then I put it back together. And then I when I left, I tried
Georgie 31:44
to sell it right. Like the person might not want the bloody thing there.
Geoff 31:49
I also don't want to sell them at $100 lock. So
Georgie 31:54
very funny.
Geoff 31:55
I mean, it could have been about
Georgie 31:56
how was the con with the price or sort of shit?
Geoff 32:01
Yeah, I mean, but the thing that's the thing, right? Nope, you can't guarantee other people will like your life choices. It's true. And
Georgie 32:10
I actually saw a video about this recently where people feel the need, I don't know but just universally, we feel the need to not make our space like home for some reason, because we're thinking about the next person who like lives in here whether you own or rent, right? And as I put them the person was like, What the fuck man? Like I live here? Of course I want to make it my home like why would I wait? And think about the future when I want to live like I'm
Geoff 32:38
living here. We don't own anything. Have you not read?
Georgie 32:41
Oh my god. Yes. Why don't we do an episode? I
Geoff 32:46
don't know. But it's like digital rights like you you buy game digitally. And then they can actually kill the game that you just bought.
Georgie 32:54
Yeah, and we talked about subscription stuff, right? You said people don't realise that
Geoff 32:58
that you can do an episode things
Georgie 33:02
things can get like removed like shows will just get removed for whatever free Yeah, and you don't.
Geoff 33:09
Anyways, yeah, we did do an episode of that. But what was the train of thought again? We're like oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, treating your place like a rental and it's sort of like that you don't own because you busy too busy thinking of the future right. So my friend my friend my famous friend tire.
Georgie 33:30
Did you see that?
Geoff 33:32
Yeah.
Georgie 33:37
Apple I think it's Apple podcasts.
Geoff 33:40
Auto Transport really good. Transcription on Apple podcasts. That's
Georgie 33:44
interesting. Yeah, I might have said it to you like off podcast that there is a transcript now and I'm like what does that mean for us? Like can we get it to can we not not pay for transcription which I go and edit anyway to make it accurate but then if the tire is gonna be called tire for the rest of it
Geoff 34:08
he messaged me about it and I was like you changed business is tire tires now we're talking about the wheel this is an actual a tow yo yo toy Yeah, I don't know. Anyways, we're talking about car car tires by the way tie like the the rubber ring around your wheel.
Unknown Speaker 34:33
Toyota tires I think
Geoff 34:35
yeah, this Toyota tires and it's not even spelt that way. I forgot how to spell di
Georgie 34:41
t t t y Re and tire are both acceptable. Yes, hurry with we've stumbled upon one of those tire
Geoff 34:51
country led tire.
Unknown Speaker 34:56
Tires tire Bell is spilling
Geoff 35:04
Yeah, Thai versus Thai grammar just both mean that covering for we'll usually preferred spelling. Oh, Thai is preferred spelling in us and TTIP is, you know, T T Y. No, no t i R. Yeah, tip. I'll show you a cool thing with this browser if it's on here. Uh huh. No, it's not on the Windows version yet. But on the Mac version with this browser, I could, I can pick. Oh, no, just Ark? Yeah, I can pick certain elements and just delete it from the DOM, using the browser. So every time Yeah, every time you visit that website, again, it will delete the same things. And you can edit the website by a CSS. So every time you visit the website, it applies your CSS consistently.
Georgie 36:01
Have you tried deleting ads like this?
Geoff 36:03
Yeah, yeah, I did it. I did it. I did it on a website before. So like, it was a recipe. No, it was a listicle. And it showed like, it was English. It was all like classic English dishes. And every, every day, like 15 of them every dish had an ad, or two ads between them. So I was just like, zapping them as I went down. I saw a video
Georgie 36:32
since you said recipe remind me that I saw a video that was a supposed to be a reaction of someone scrolling through a recipe like looking for a recipe, let's say apple pie. And the reaction was like, the person reading the thing going over, just like it serves blah, blah. Okay, cool. And then scroll down. It's like, here's a story about my grandma, that keeps going, like, I just want the ingredients. And like a here's an ad. There's like, oh, yeah, here are the different things you can serve it with. I'm like, where are the ingredients? And you've scrolled for like, a minute, like through so many pictures and ads and text, not related the recipe and then you find the ingredients. It's just the one the the
Geoff 37:15
funniest thing I've realised about this, is that they normally have a jump to recipe button at the top. Is it tiny as shit? No, no, it's not tiny a shit and it's not, it's black. And it's contrasty. And you can't miss it. But still, they have all of the all the crap that you use just before
Georgie 37:38
the rest of it. You're looking for the recipe and the
Geoff 37:41
craft or whatever, the backstory, the backstory and things so so they realise that some people don't want to read all this stuff, but still put it before the recipe and recognise it enough to put a button to say skip the recipe. Why don't you put it after? Like, I don't know, maybe Maybe you're right. It's like what you can serve it with and stuff and would be nice, I suppose to understand if you didn't know what to do with the recipe. It's
Georgie 38:13
like who is the audience? Because I think that that is common and maybe not recipes, specific sites. It's like for people who earn a blog about food, or like companies who have like things they want to promote or talk about, and that's most comment whereas like yeah, who is your audience? If you do that probably she
Geoff 38:34
doesn't do it. She doesn't do it at all. That's probably because she
Georgie 38:39
doesn't write a blog where she talks about stuff and Newman
Geoff 38:43
what was another one that I did recipe? Tin eats Yeah, this is this is probably because this is actually literally restlessness like this this is this is the this is the craft potatoes to clarify, butter or ghee, virtually the same thing how to make a potato rusty squeeze great. This is actually useful. I never read, read never read this. I never took the time to read it. But you can see how long it takes me to get to the recipe. Like is halfway down the page is an SEO thing. Oh, the guy actually asked me about SEO Oh, my God
Unknown Speaker 39:26
course you did. I'm not surprised. And I was like, okay, he said
Geoff 39:33
I think he knows about SEO because he used to. He used to work for a bigger company. And they they had like they had something to do with SEO and clicks, clicks per clicks per click, cost per click yes TCP. And then as I don't know about now, but 10 years 10 years ago, it was all about keywords and you could basically A Google because of how clear their algorithm was, but nowadays, it's they've completely shut shut that formula formula down. I think that's why you don't see like specific SEO engineers or SEO Services anymore. Because this job
Georgie 40:17
actually like
Geoff 40:20
in the optimum. Yeah, I think it is. But I mean, I don't know about internal because when I worked for domain, we had a SEO team. So they were they were busy making the SEO work. But I think now, it's just in the wind. Like, when ever I get asked whenever I get wind of something about SEO is normally like, oh, Google is ranking websites that a have good content, be load fast. And like, so it's serving JavaScript. Yeah, exactly. It changes so free.
Georgie 41:00
So it makes me annoyed because I'm anti Google. Why are we only caring about how Google fucking does it?
Geoff 41:07
Like, it's because the big is because everyone
Georgie 41:09
really is a Google and I was so annoyed. Can we not like, ah, yeah.
Geoff 41:17
Anyways, well, we're, we're, you see, yeah, talked about SEO a little bit. So he basically stayed like, half an hour or 45 minutes over tonight, talking about random stuff.
Georgie 41:30
So let's see gonna do
Geoff 41:33
I mean, like,
Georgie 41:34
is he gonna
Geoff 41:35
Yeah, I don't know. I was, I was gonna, I was, in the end, gonna send him a link on how to, you know, set up Netlify himself. Like, I'm pretty sure now if I straightforward enough. They even have a drag and drop, like, files, a huge drop or drop all your files and deploy it like FTP. But in the in the UI version, maybe they have like, an override. I mean, but like we we do, we do board games, where and we use Board Game Arena. And
Georgie 42:11
oh, yeah, the you’re that Yeah.
Geoff 42:16
It's just like, Why could you? I kid you not. It's like the worst UI? And you know why it's built in PHP?
Georgie 42:26
Why not a small team of people working on something.
Geoff 42:30
It's all open source? Oh. Yeah, that's, yeah. But I mean, I went in thinking, Alright, I'm going to figure out how to make this website, like this board game website better. So I went through all the developer like all the forms, and the onboarding was good. Yeah, I looked at this I looked at I mean, I couldn't find the source code. I was like, how does this website work? It works by FTP. I, oh,
Unknown Speaker 42:59
my freaking god.
Geoff 43:01
Because yeah, because PHP is like, really notoriously difficult to to, to do a version deploy. Yeah. And I mean, like,
Georgie 43:12
yeah, actually, when I was at high pages, in working on those old websites that they had, it was it was by FTP. Yeah.
Geoff 43:19
WordPress itself, you have to upgrade via like FTP, or
Georgie 43:24
you're paying off if people don't know FTP means File Transfer Protocol. And it's, it's very, it's an old, non versioned way of deploying a website versions, like you updated thing, and I write Jeff's last name in a Toast & Roast thing or something. And then I upload it. And I can always roll back to the version that doesn't have Jeff's last name. But FTP is old, and it will basically override what you've got. Yeah. So you will lose the history of what you've done. And that may be important to you.
Geoff 43:56
I think. I think your your, your, your computer file system is basically ft does like FTP. If you have a same name, yeah. Yeah, you have the same name. Like you have two photos, and the you name the same thing. And then you drag one photo over to the other, and it just replaces that, put it back that ask you you like, Are you sure you shouldn't be like, yes. But then you realise, hey, that was a mistake. You can't, you can't you can, you can never get that photo that you ever written back. And that's basically, you know, super dangerous for websites, because, hey, you can make a mistake on a website, and you can dock someone like Georgie wanted to do to me, and then the names
Georgie 44:42
are on the bloody point.
Geoff 44:46
Anyways, so I looked into I jumped through all the hurdles, and I looked into it. I'm like, there's a bunch of Git like GitHub, which is a repository for code. But I couldn't find out why are these all separate? because it was all under different people's accounts, it was off like copies of Board Game Arena. And I realised they were versioning it separately to how they deploy it. There was all of them.
Georgie 45:13
It's crazy. So it wasn't worth it. Did you not end up like doing? Yeah,
Geoff 45:17
I can't I can't figure out how to update the UI, because I was just like, Oh my God, I don't want to like touch PHP garbage, and probably using some template language that I don't want to touch anymore.
Georgie 45:31
Anyways, one day.
Geoff 45:34
Well, I mean, one day one, I'm bothered to, like, give my services for free.
Georgie 45:40
Yeah, yeah. See, that's funny, like I this, because my blog is on WordPress. And that was a thing that I cared about, like, back in the day when I first started up, and I tried to, like customise it a lot. And then recently, I was like, oh, man, there's some things that could be better that I totally did in a really should wake when I made it all custom. And I have a friend who actually, I met through blogging, and she ended up starting her own business. And now she does WordPress stuff, like, in her in her business. And I reached out to her and I was like, Hey, do you have like a hourly rate? Or a day rate or something? Because like this? And would you? Is this something you'd do? Like, would you fix my WordPress theme for me? If I can't be bothered, because I'm probably like, I haven't bothered to even do it, which makes me think that maybe I should just pay someone to do it. But it's like, if I can't be bothered doing it and learning it, but doing it better. Like, can I just can you do it? Is that something? He says awesome. Something I did like recently? Because yeah, I mean, pay people for the things that you don't want to? Yeah,
Geoff 46:43
the so so I think I mentioned tire and I forgot to finish on a sidetrack. So, tyre and his wife was was moved with bought a place and they renovated it before moving in. And one of the things they wanted to do was take the bathtub out. Now, if anybody knows anything about property, it's that bathtubs add value. Or rather the general the general idea is that people want people want bathtubs for certain things. And if you take the bathtub out, then your property decreases in value. Something Yeah, so I'm having the bathtub there is you know, and it's a bathtub shower. So that is because, because you get the best of both.
Georgie 47:41
I grew up with one of those. And Nick doesn't like them. I think maybe because he's a tall person. So it's kind of, and maybe the one that I had at my parents place was a little bit shit, because you couldn't really adjust the
Geoff 47:56
Yeah, just the shower. I don't like it either. Because I have to step over a bathtub and then stepping out. Yeah, it's not it's not for everyone. Yeah. Anyway, yeah. Anyways, so they got a contractor and, and he basically said, like, he basically said that, do what do whatever you want. Because it's up to you. It's like, it really doesn't matter about the value of your place before after the bathtub. Because nine times out of 10 the next person that's buying it, who wants a bathtub will put it back?
Georgie 48:30
Yeah, yeah, no, that's so true. It's not.
Geoff 48:33
It's not a deal is like not a deal breaker that someone walks into a place to say, of course, there's no bathtub, I'm leaving. They're like, willing to spend like, like north of $600,000 on an apartment, that the bathtub installation, it's people
Georgie 48:50
who want a thing. We'll do it like I know, because Nick's parents have done a lot of renovations in their house over time. Like I remember Nick telling me when, when they moved in, when he was younger. The walls were like, brightly coloured in some of the rooms. And he was like, I want that bright, whatever, orange or green or blue room. But what his parents had in mind was like, we're gonna repaint everything. And so his he and his sister were like, Wait, what did you get rid of? We wanted it for the kids. You don't understand they wanted a coloured bruise. But yeah, and they've done stuff over time to like, modify the house a little bit. And that's what they wanted to do. And we're willing to spend money on.
Geoff 49:29
Yeah, exactly. So I mean, so I think the majority agree that hard, hard floors are better. But yeah, but you never know. Like, you could have somebody come into a place and say, I love carpet. Why would you do that? And you could also say, there's carpet here and why would you do that too? Why would you replace the carpet? So yeah, you can never tell what the next person's tastes are going to be. And if you're buying a property, then you know, do whatever you want with it. Because at the end of the day, when you're leaving, you'll have to do touch ups anyways. So you may as well like drill that hole in the wall and leave like when, like I am doing now. Right and drilling. I've replaced the blinds and it's left holes in the wall. So I'm filling them in, you know, one that can be same same for my for mounting anything else like, okay, there's holes in the wall, just fill them in. Before you leave, or, or the the flooring. I did, I did the flooring. And I was like, oh, cool, I'll I'll have more value because I did the flooring. And the value getting
Georgie 50:48
is from living you living? Yeah, like, thinking about?
Geoff 50:54
Do you want to but yeah, my, my dad was like, reminded me that, hey, that's like a personal personal choice, you can't can't guarantee anything you do will increase the value of your property. Anything you do internally. Other than I don't know. I don't know putting tile from floor to ceiling that
Georgie 51:14
might make everything marble like Yeah. perceived value, right? Like, yeah, just look at, they just taken on face value, but maybe they look deeper and gone. Or it's like, you know, structural integrity or so I don't know why, like, you just also don't know, you also don't know what the market is gonna bloody do Eva. And it's
Geoff 51:35
just yeah, exactly. Like, there's another apartment. That that's like in the same building as mine. And they're like, same configuration. And they, they were selling. And they had hired, they had hardwood floors that cost more than my floors for some reason. And they were like half the size. In any case.
Georgie 52:00
Like as in,
Geoff 52:01
I have no idea that they apparently they dispense like, a certain amount of money on the floors. And that was
Georgie 52:08
why did you say it was for sale? The apartments? Yeah, for
Geoff 52:11
sale. And I looked at the layout, and I'm like, This is really bad. That's terrible. Yeah. So it didn't like in reality, it's like, didn't really matter what the floors were, if you're if you have like an idea in your mind, you go to see an apartment and, or like a house. And it's within your price range.
Georgie 52:35
Like, we're not looking for anything at the moment. But like, we've looked at things and I've been what I imagine is like, Okay, I will use that for my home office. And then Nick will have that space, and knew that must be the master bedroom. And that's what bed goes. And so I'm not thinking about the fact that there's bloody bathtub there or like, yeah, someone's got some paintings on the walls. Like they're not going to fucking be there. Like if this plays.
Geoff 52:58
Yeah. There's no we were that's all we have time for. We're, we're over, we're over timing to go to compensate.
Georgie 53:12
Like an extra like 710 minutes, like every?
Geoff 53:16
Yeah. How many episodes would that be? Before make back the time was four times. One week, we're gone for three, three months. So 12 will be full with four months. So that's like 16 episodes.
Georgie 53:35
Just quickly, Nick's uncle was in town and he on the he I guess his Nick's parents must have been like, oh, yeah, George is recording a podcast. Like, and, and he and Nick's uncle was like, oh, what's your podcast about? And I just was like, hey, just meet my friend talking shit. And then he asked, How do you get many listeners? And I'm like, we get the same full list. But we can see that. I don't know. How many downloads do we even have? I kind of
Geoff 54:03
I mean, we should do we haven't done the yearly review yet. So I did an XF. So but yes,
Georgie 54:11
thanks for listening. Yeah, we will not. Well, we decided I think that we would
Geoff 54:17
our conversations are free
so you can find a follow us on nowhere,
Georgie 54:31
you can email us to toastroastpod@gmail.com and you can find our podcasts on Apple podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts and the big
Geoff 54:46
cover a range of topics, even
Georgie 54:47
though the I'm trying to find the stuff to sum up like
Unknown Speaker 54:59
the Big Frame costing the big free yet the big free podcast
Geoff 55:05
and the episodes every Monday so see you next week I