A smidge of controversy as we poke into what historical developments might have encouraged the rise of religion, and sexism towards women, before jumping into modern day phenomena like mukbang and ASMR.
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A smidge of controversy as we poke into what historical developments might have encouraged the rise of religion, and sexism towards women, before jumping into modern day phenomena like mukbang and ASMR.
Social media
Toast & Roast:
Georgie:
Geoff:
Georgie 0:09
Hey everybody, and welcome back to a another episode of Toast & Roast. I am your co host, Georgie and as usual, I’m here with the Geoff.
Geoff 0:19
Oh, I am the Geoff, the only Geoff.
Georgie 0:22
Yeah.
Geoff 0:23
Actually—
Georgie 0:24
I know one other Geoff.
Geoff 0:24
Oh?
Georgie 0:24
I think. No, I know two.
Geoff 0:28
J’s or G’s? All G’s?
Georgie 0:31
I think one of them is—actually no, I know, okay, so, context context. I know one that’s a G, who’s a colleague. And then two of Nick’s family, actually no, one of Nick’s family friends is a J. And his uncle, I think, is a J.
Geoff 0:50
Okay, yeah. Did you hear about the guy who brought together all of the Nicks to have a fight or something? Yes—
Georgie 0:59
Is this recent?
Geoff 1:00
No, it wasn’t recent. I think it was Nick. I can’t remember what the name was because I was looking it up the other day.
Georgie 1:06
Is my husband involved?
Geoff 1:08
No. Well, you should ask him if he, early 2010s he was called up to have a fight with other Nicks.
Georgie 1:16
For what?
Geoff 1:17
To see who was the true Nick? Is it called The True Nick?
Georgie 1:21
I cannot believe this.
Geoff 1:25
True, True Nicks is an actual show of some sort? Yeah. So basically, is it True Nicks Australia? True...
Georgie 1:34
No context.
Geoff 1:35
Anyways. So basically, does this guy who was a John and Nick, a, James, whatever, they insert your most common name. And he wanted to find out who was the true John or Nick. So he called all of the Johns and Nicks that he could find to, and then they all congregated, congregated into this one place. And then they did, I don’t know, a set of challenges, or they fought each other to see who was the true, the true Nick.
Georgie 2:07
That is, okay so it wasn’t like violent, necessarily.
Geoff 2:10
I don’t know. Yeah I can’t—probably was a gathering of John’s to find out who—
Georgie 2:18
I somehow I doubt you’re gonna find this, but okay.
Geoff 2:21
John, is? Oh, no, I can’t do John, because John is a biblical name. Is it Nick?
Georgie 2:31
Just getting a lot of biblical results.
Geoff 2:33
Yeah. Any case. There was, yeah, that was, that was this crazy person who decided to do that.
Georgie 2:42
Do you know any other Georgies?
Geoff 2:45
No.
Georgie 2:46
Yes!
Geoff 2:48
I don’t think so. And I remember, remember, we were at this event, when we met, your, one of your friends. And I was so close to having 500 connections on LinkedIn and that they, and your friend became the 500th connection on my LinkedIn.
Georgie 3:07
When was this!
Geoff 3:07
Um.
Georgie 3:07
Was it we were doing codebar?
Geoff 3:11
I think it was something like codebar. Yeah—
Georgie 3:14
By the way, we’ve not ever actually talked about what codebar is on this podcast.
Geoff 3:19
Yeah. Let’s leave that a mystery, nah, just jokes. Um, helping underrepresented and minorities learn to code, I think is the—
Georgie 3:30
People in minority groups.
Geoff 3:31
People in minority groups.
Georgie 3:33
Yeah. So the way the way it came about, it was like a, like a workshop style meetup thing that we ran every month with two other people. It came about because someone else, not, not those two other people. Someone else had come to Australia from the UK. And she wanted to start up a codebar initiative in Sydney. And codebar exists, like in many places in the UK, and they all seem to be quite successful and maybe more popular than we ever were. But yeah, it was a thing we organised and now is no more in Sydney. At least.
Geoff 4:08
Yeah, because we’re lazy shits.
Georgie 4:10
No, I mean, I maintain it kind of didn’t work very well, when we had lock downs and stuff.
Geoff 4:17
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Right. Now I remember. So last episode, we talked about like Netflix, and your, and I think you were saying that there was a season that was eight episodes and then we went on a massive tangent.
Georgie 4:30
Yes. With, yeah. Yeah. So I feel like there’s a few different formats. You said there’s like, seasons with 13 episodes, and I find those tend to be on the 45 to 55 minutes side.
Geoff 4:41
It’s true.
Georgie 4:42
And then you’ve got like 24 episodes where everything’s 20 minutes, I think like Big Bang Theory, maybe?
Geoff 4:48
Yeah.
Georgie 4:49
Maybe. So eight, yeah eight is common on Netflix, but I have seen vary, duration variance like tw—eight times 20 minutes, or eight times, like 40 minutes. It just depends on the show.
Geoff 5:05
Actually, what was the last short series? I think I watched a short series that was like three or four episodes. And it was, like 40 minutes each, anyways. So I read something about how, then you said that was cancelled? And—
Georgie 5:22
And this was a short one. It was like one that was like eight times, maybe 26 or 20 minutes. Yeah.
Geoff 5:28
Yeah. And this is apparently, well, it’s becoming a bigger deal, how everyone’s hating on Netflix if they keep cancelling shows that they like,
Georgie 5:38
because of a budget or money thing that they’re like, this is, let’s do this and try it out. And then we’ll see what happens.
Geoff 5:44
I think in some cases, yes. But actually, like, I was reading about how it’s all about completion rates. So it doesn’t matter, like how, yeah, it just—
Georgie 5:59
How popular?
Geoff 5:59
...shows how many people how popular it is, like if everyone watched the first episode, massive hype, and whatever. It’s about how many people who are actually complete the season is what makes them create a new season.
Georgie 6:14
Is it that they fund the entire like production? So all that matters is that it’s produced.
Geoff 6:20
I don’t know. But it just comes off to me as kind of like, as long as they know that there’s an audience that will watch the next season, they’ll make a new season.
Georgie 6:31
Yeah.
Geoff 6:31
So just because a handful of people really like it doesn’t mean that they’re going to get a new season. Kind of like Firefly, if anybody is still bummed about Firefly. But yeah, they they go into heavy completion ratings, there’s, so it doesn’t matter if the show got a higher rating than another show of the same kind. So they had like these two shows, people are like, I really liked that show, that other show wasn’t too good. That one got the highest ratings, but actually didn’t have enough completion. So the series that actually was least, less liked, ish, by the community, and didn’t have a good rating was the one that got a new season and that piss people off. So if you are curious, that’s how Netflix chooese. And I think there was another thing in the last episode that I was thinking about. Oh, right. You were talking about how like like masturbation was a was like, was demonised and stuff.
Georgie 7:41
Yes, you yeah, you’ve mentioned that the thing you’re watching—context for people who are just like, why—
Geoff 7:46
Just jumping in? Yeah, I’m trying to like continue.
Georgie 7:49
You were talking about Alien ism. Is that what it’s called?
Geoff 7:51
Alientist, the Alienist the show. Yeah. And someone was demonised for being a little bit more frisky at like 13 then—
Georgie 8:00
Yeah. And this is in like, what, the 1800s—
Geoff 8:02
19th, 19th century? Yeah.
Georgie 8:05
Yeah, and I was like, what makes people like, of that time? They have, the parents had the idea that this is like evil and shit. So what, yeah.
Geoff 8:16
Yeah. I read something really interesting about this, because someone asked this question on Reddit, for some strange reason on the thread that I was reading. And they said, agriculture as a, as like a short and long of it, agriculture was actually the time at which everything kind of changed for women. Women became became the, like, the lesser, the lesser human. And how that person explained it was actually before agriculture. Women were actually gatherers. They were food gatherers, they were often the primary, the primary resource, resource, gatherer, meat, meat as well. They hunted and they gathered, and they, they provided the primary provider for the family.
Georgie 9:07
So what did men do?
Geoff 9:09
Yeah, I think they shared the responsibilities, but the females were the primary—
Georgie 9:13
Because I feel like I’ve heard this before. Or, what you’re saying. Yeah.
Geoff 9:17
Yeah. So apparently, and then given like their long travels around hunting and stuff, they obviously didn’t menstruate or they weren’t even at home enough to have as many babies as—
Georgie 9:30
Right.
Geoff 9:30
As portrayed nowadays that females are around to make babies.
Georgie 9:35
Yep. Yep. Yeah.
Geoff 9:37
So when agriculture came along, so agriculture was the advent of mass farming, when they figured out that they could plough fields and they could, you know, do everything in one place. Essentially, they didn’t have to go out and do shit. They became very lazy. It became have a job of manual labour. And as a result of a job for manual labour, to do more of it, you have to have more hands.
Georgie 10:14
OK. Yeah.
Geoff 10:14
So then it was like, oh shit, how do we get more people on our farm? You make more children. So therefore, females—
Georgie 10:25
You need to reproduce.
Geoff 10:25
Yeah, females became something that you wanted to keep in the house producing babies in order to have hands.
Georgie 10:37
Okay, yeah.
Geoff 10:37
And that shifted the scale, that shifted the scale, the male started to be the predominant predominant, like, provider.
Georgie 10:49
Yeah.
Geoff 10:49
And then boys became more important to have than girls. Um, and they vaguely touched on the fact that the the change in aspect obviously benefited some, right, benefited the rich. The rich, who had bigger farms, more people were the ones who who wanted this regime, essentially.
Georgie 11:20
Yeah, yep.
Geoff 11:22
And apparently, it’s hard to change that frame of mind. Where you have a wife, you have a partner, and you don’t want them to suffer. You don’t want them to just sit around making babies, you’re an equal partnership for this entire time in this, in this, in this history.
Georgie 11:39
Yeah.
Geoff 11:40
So it turns out it’s hard to turn it’s hard to turn men into into, like, forcing their wife to just make babies. And then so—
Georgie 11:54
At the time.
Geoff 11:54
At the time.
Georgie 11:55
Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah.
Geoff 11:56
So how they did it? Religion. They came up with religion.
Georgie 12:02
Oh shit. Yeah.
Geoff 12:04
Women weak, men strong. Women bad, men good.
Georgie 12:12
So now there were rules and things that people now following as like, this is the source of like truth.
Geoff 12:18
Exactly. God is with—
Georgie 12:23
Powerful dude.
Geoff 12:25
Yeah, powerful dude. And I was like, that kind of really makes sense. Did I fact check any of this? No.
Georgie 12:33
No, you just you saw it on Reddit and—
Geoff 12:36
I saw it on Reddit and I’m like—
Georgie 12:38
Convincing enough.
Geoff 12:39
Logical, logical. So that kind of like they were like, there’s a lot more nuanced obviously around like how you set up a religion, how you turn everybody against a single sex. But that kind of like put the wheels in motion that makes, it makes sense that it put the wheels in motion for this stigmatism that we have now that women are weak. Men are strong. Men do all things. Women are just there to make babies because hey, we need more hands for agriculture. So yeah, that was very—
Georgie 13:14
That is interesting. So fuck crops and fuck religion.
Geoff 13:20
Fuck capitalism!
Georgie 13:22
And then like to think about how far we’ve like—when I say how far we’ve come, I don’t mean like, in a good way, you know, but how much has happened since since then? If this is, if this is true.
Geoff 13:37
Yeah.
Georgie 13:37
It’s like holy shit.
Geoff 13:39
Let’s look at the study of agriculture. And the downfall of women.
Georgie 13:49
You really think it’s gonna garner you a result, like? The gender agenda.
Geoff 13:52
Barriers women face in agriculture. How did agriculture affect women? The share of women do as their primary was decreasing participant agriculture... I don’t know. Gender roles in agriculture, did anything change? Anyways. Yeah, look it up if you’re super interested in that but to me—
Georgie 14:11
And if you want to fact check.
Geoff 14:12
If you want to fact check me. Sure. But I think that was a pretty it’s a pretty interesting take and take it with like a bucket of salt again. So.
Georgie 14:23
Huge bucket.
Geoff 14:25
Huge, huge bucket. Some dude on Reddit just said it.
Georgie 14:29
Oh so it was a dude?
Geoff 14:30
Maybe, who knows, actually. Good call, could be, could have been a woman.
Georgie 14:36
You know, Reddit is one of those things that I like, I don’t have an account. But I really like reading people’s thoughts and opinions on stuff.
Geoff 14:47
Yeah. But Reddit becomes that echo chamber, where like, people are so angry about something and then they’re like why is this, why is this even a thing out in real life and then you realise that Reddit is 0.00001% of like Planet Earth’s population, they don’t speak for the world.
Georgie 15:11
Reddit is like walking into like some conference room and everybody is talking about the same topic.
Geoff 15:19
Yeah.
Georgie 15:23
And the people who go to that conference are like a specific kind of people. And so it’s definitely not representative of the entire whatever, like industry or the entire like, area or whatever. And so yeah, you’re right, kind of, it kind of is like an echo chamber.
Geoff 15:41
So 48 million monthly users apparently, divide that by 7 billion with a B. So they are 0.06% of the—
Georgie 15:54
It’s a lot of people.
Geoff 15:54
...the human population. And I remember also someone saying, like, when they turned off social media, they like, like, it was so much more of a positive life.
Georgie 16:08
Like outside of the internet?
Geoff 16:11
Outside of, outside of all these little echo chambers that are always so angry about something. They’re, they’re like, our life improved, because they just shut off social media. I’m like, I truly believe that.
Georgie 16:24
Actually, like speaking of that, right, like I have, at times, I’ve become annoyed at Instagram, and then I’ve just like, not used it for like a week. But I think about I think about Twitter, which we like kind of touched on. I think a few episodes back. And I said, I know everyone is thinking that Twitter’s gone to shit. But I have this semi attachment to it. But at the same time, I don’t really care. So I’m like, largely indifferent where, okay, I’ve been a user since 2009. Before it was cool kids. That’s what I mean. I was a Twitter user it before it—
Geoff 16:59
Before it was ruined.
Georgie 17:00
Actually, I think was the end of 2008. But anyway, I have like made friends on Twitter, connected with people on there who I’ve met, like at conferences or events and things. And then my friends who I met through blogging, also like were on Twitter, but I don’t want to, people are just like jumping ship, and I’m like, I don’t know if I care enough, you know, to take the action to go, “I’m leaving”, and, as if to announce to everybody um, I’m leaving. At the same time, you know, if the poll thing blows up in flames tomorrow, and it’s all gone. I kind of don’t really care either.
Geoff 17:37
Yeah, yeah. Another interesting take on like, the social media thing. There’s... how much context I want to give to this. There’s a Facebook group on, there’s a Facebook group made by this guy who is known as the Overly Enthusiastic Maccas Drive Thru Guy.
Georgie 18:01
Maccas drive—okay, I may not know who this is, but that, that’s fair enough.
Geoff 18:04
Yeah. The Overly Enthusiastic... it’s not even joke. Overly Enthusiastic Maccas Drive... you can just google this verbatim through, Guy—
Georgie 18:15
Maccas is Australian for McDonald’s.
Geoff 18:17
Oh McDonald’s.
Georgie 18:18
Yes.
Geoff 18:20
And he’s rebranded to be Enthusiastic Guy. To be honest—
Georgie 18:25
Oh. Okay, so he’s dropped the “Maccas Drive Thru”.
Geoff 18:29
“Overly Enthusiastic Maccas Drive Thru”. Yeah. But he works at this very specific Maccas Drive Thru, in in Perth.
Georgie 18:36
OK.
Geoff 18:36
He has 4.4 thousand followers, which is not that huge. Anyways, so he comes out with this. It’s kind of a weird group page. Because he’s, he talks about politics and stuff.
Georgie 18:53
Yeah.
Geoff 18:53
In any case. So it comes out with his video. And I was like, oh, this is a bit interesting, this enthusiastic guy, which I mean, like, back in the day, I just followed group pages because like, you’d liked that particular topic.
Georgie 19:07
Yep.
Geoff 19:08
And then now when you scroll through Facebook, they’re just pumping out random stuff, irrespective of topic, which is really annoying. But hey, I don’t I don’t scroll through Facebook that often. So he comes out with this video. And he’s like, he’s ranting about the try-on like, girls trying on clothes—
Georgie 19:27
Oh my god.
Geoff 19:28
Genre.
Georgie 19:28
Haul.
Geoff 19:29
Yes.
Georgie 19:30
Okay, so—
Geoff 19:30
Try-on haul.
Georgie 19:31
Sorry. I just kicked over my drink bottle. I don’t like the word haul.
Geoff 19:35
Yeah.
Georgie 19:36
And I, I how do I put this look, I gotta be real with you. Sometimes I sometimes I buy clothes. Yes. That for fashion, like you know, to express myself. Sometimes I buy a lot of clothes. Sometimes I returned them. I’m not an influencer though. But some influencers, some vloggers, whatever you want to call them. They have these videos called hauls where they buy 10, 20, 30 items of clothing, they try it on in front of the camera, talk about it, and then—
Geoff 20:05
Not nude, by the way if you were concerned.
Georgie 20:10
No, But I mean, I can kind of agree that I kind of hate it. I hate the word haul. It’s just like, “oh my god, look at my haul”. I do make a bit of a joke about it. Look, I like seeing my friends try clothes on and show me and be like, look, I really liked this, what do you think? So on and so forth? And I think they’re trying to replicate that, like, you know, going shopping with your friends and trying shit on?
Geoff 20:31
Yeah.
Georgie 20:31
Yeah.
Geoff 20:32
And I totally get—
Georgie 20:33
What was his take on on it? I wanna know.
Geoff 20:36
Before that, I’ll say I do I do understand the genre. Like, because when you see clothing on models, it on, in the in the shop front, even for guys, like, show you show clothing until you actually see someone try it on, you don’t actually know how it’s going to like how the fit is going to be, right.
Georgie 21:01
It’s useful content. I think the problem is like the word “haul” implies you bought a fuck ton of clothes, unnecessary. And it’s not just you’re trying stuff on and you want to share with your audience, like some useful information about how it fits and the fabric and blah, blah.
Geoff 21:18
Yeah, yeah, I’ve seen I’ve seen some where they’re like, oh, this actual part of the clothing is not very functional. And like, oh, or like the zipper gets caught really easy. And that kind of stuff. I kind of understand. Anyways, so this guy’s take is that he’s like, he’s, he’s really complaining about the algorithm at its core. He’s like, I am, I’m a, I’m a straight, I don’t know, in my early 30s, or 30s, married guy, and I get shown try on hauls.
Georgie 21:53
(laughs) Yeah.
Geoff 21:53
And he says, he can only assume that all these pieces of lingerie and crap that they’re trying on are expensive. And he can only surmise. Like, the reason he is being showed this is so that it influences him to buy it, he’ll stop scrolling, for one, and possibly buy it for his partner. I’m like, oh, yeah, that’s a pretty interesting take.
Georgie 22:23
Do you agree?
Geoff 22:25
I think I think to a degree, yes. Because influencers are paid to influence people to purchase things. So I don’t think it’s too without like to beyond the realm of showing it to showing, you know, attractive women dressing up in clothes—
Georgie 22:46
To men.
Geoff 22:46
To men.
Georgie 22:47
Who might be straight.
Geoff 22:49
Who might be straight. Right? That I understand, like, why wouldn’t you show the attractive woman to men, but that that that doesn’t convert, like attractive women to men doesn’t convert on anything but attractive women trying on things to men who are married, does kind of convert?
Georgie 23:10
Okay, but the problem I now have with this narrative is that companies are following, like they’re perpetuating this narrative that men should buy women lingerie.
Geoff 23:21
Yes.
Georgie 23:22
Which I think is very silly.
Geoff 23:24
Yeah.
Georgie 23:24
And many women will be very like against that, and be like, no, I buy the stuff for myself. I do not expect a man to do this for me, etc.
Geoff 23:32
Yeah. Yeah. 100% it does play into that. That idea that—
Georgie 23:39
Sexist.
Geoff 23:39
Yeah, that like women are only there for the male gaze. And for men feel like they can buy sexy lingerie for that for their women so that they wear it for them. It’s very, it’s it’s very sexist. But also it’s an algorithm. And anything to convert is what the algorithm does. I don’t know if it, if it actually works, maybe it does, because that’s what the algorithm is kind of doing. Maybe people orchestrating advertising platforms think that this is also something that works. But yeah.
Georgie 24:17
Do you get do you get those kinds of like, just videos of women?
Geoff 24:23
Of just women?
Georgie 24:25
Yeah, like, or, even yeah, women doing, or like, do you get this?
Geoff 24:29
No, I don’t get it.
Georgie 24:30
Okay, because sometimes Nick gets videos of girls dancing to music, you know, there’s like TikTok dances and things like that—
Geoff 24:37
Oh it’s bloody annoying.
Georgie 24:39
Shown up on whatever, Instagram Reels. He’s like, oh, I keep seeing this girl just like, oh, like what are they? What’s that? Is that people just paying possibly to be seen?
Geoff 24:48
I think TikTok is different. Right? TikTok is more about keeping you on the platform. So straight—
Georgie 24:54
Well this is Instagram Reels so it’s the same. It’s the same premise, right?
Geoff 24:58
Right. Yeah. Straight male, how to get straight male to keep scrolling and possibly look at stuff.
Georgie 25:04
But he doesn’t, he skips, that’s the thing, right, he literally just goes, “ugh don’t want to see a woman”.
Geoff 25:11
Yeah, that’s my attitude to Instagram as well.
Georgie 25:15
But then, agh, yeah.
Geoff 25:18
I’m almost really done with social networks if anyone can’t tell. We’re all at our edge.
Georgie 25:24
Can I ask you about ASMR? I don’t know if we’ve talked about this.
Geoff 25:28
ASMR. No, we haven’t talked about ASMR.
Georgie 25:31
Okay, well, we need to define ASMR because even I’m not entirely sure...
Geoff 25:36
A... yeah, there might be some... “Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response is a tingling sensation that usually begins in scalp moves down the back of the neck and upper spine”.
Georgie 25:49
I think some people have likened it to like an orgasm. Like it’s, it’s—
Geoff 25:53
Really?
Georgie 25:53
Yeah. So like you if you see some, you hear like a very pleasant sound. You get this like, nice sensation or tingly sensation.
Geoff 26:03
Okay.
Georgie 26:04
It’s kind of like an eargasm, or something like that. You know?
Geoff 26:07
Yeah.
Georgie 26:07
Or you ever like eat food? And you’re really craving this food? And you’re like, “yes!”.
Geoff 26:12
Sorry. I should have given a content warning.
Georgie 26:15
I couldn’t, I can’t even hear that. What are you? Yeah, anyway, Geoff is like mouthing.
Geoff 26:20
Mouthing.
Georgie 26:20
Or making chewing noise. No.
Geoff 26:21
Hi everybody, this is ASMR. And it doesn’t work if it doesn’t come out from both of your ears. Thank you very much.
Georgie 26:30
So I guess the thing I was trying to get at is there, in these videos is ASMR videos, quote, unquote, are increasing in popularity, because people enjoy either watch—I think there are also things that are labelled ASMR that aren’t really sort of like, there’s like, you know, when you look at cogs in a machine, like gears—
Geoff 26:52
Yep.
Georgie 26:52
Coming together, and then you put like play-dough or like, what do they call them in America, plasticine, dough, into the, and you watch it disappear. And there’s a satisfying feeling, for some people. I should add.
Geoff 27:05
Oh.
Georgie 27:05
Some people. Yeah.
Geoff 27:06
He, here’s one that I think everybody will probably understand.
Georgie 27:09
Yeah.
Geoff 27:10
When you take the plastic peel off your phone, your brand new phone. That sound? If that sound is the sound that you enjoy hearing, and the thing you like doing, then that’s as that’s ASMR.
Georgie 27:24
Yeah, you like, you like ASMR videos? Yeah.
Geoff 27:27
I don’t you particularly like ASMR videos, because ASMR videos are kind of bits. Like they go broad. But for an example of ASMR.
Georgie 27:37
Yeah.
Geoff 27:38
Yeah.
Georgie 27:39
And yeah, so there’s there’s videos that have like visually satisfying things, as well as audibly audibly satisfying—
Geoff 27:48
Yeah.
Georgie 27:48
Aural, aurally. It’s fine.
Geoff 27:51
Aurally.
Georgie 27:52
A-u-r, yeah.
Geoff 27:54
Yeah, a-u-r, aurally. The audio version.
Georgie 28:01
Yes, aurally satisfying things. But me personally, when I see some of the food related ASMR videos, I’m—
Geoff 28:09
Ooh.
Georgie 28:09
Extremely put off. There’s one. Someone I follow called thebentistofficial on Instagram. He’s a dentist who goes by Ben. I guess. He did a reaction to some ASMR videos and I don’t know who the original guy is. But his reaction is to this guy who—this guy was just eating like, or, eating random stuff and making noise. Kind of like how Geoff was.
Geoff 28:39
Haha, yeah.
Georgie 28:40
It’s, and I don’t know, I find it super off putting the noise of someone eating.
Geoff 28:45
Yeah.
Georgie 28:46
Just food and stuff.
Geoff 28:47
I feel I kind of elevate, like escalated, not elevated. There’s no way this is elevation. Escalated from like, mukbangs, with videos where you watch people eat a tonne of food. It’s a mainly Korean thing. And it’s a very depressing, like a very depressing origin in in that because it’s basically they are depressed they want someone to eat with. So what they do is they stream themselves eating so that they can have lots of friends to eat with. And that’s that’s basically what mukbangs were back in the day, I think before they started being like this grotesque amount of food. Hey, look ASMR mukbang it’s like the top number one search on this thing.
Georgie 29:44
Yeah. No, thanks.
Geoff 29:45
Yeah, here we go. “Why do Koreans do mukbang”. They... enjoying what they once did not have and satisfying their own cravings to focus through vicariously through others. That’s why you watch it. Why people, why people do it is more.
Georgie 30:01
Well I don’t particularly think it’s pleasant though.
Geoff 30:04
Social, sexual entertainment eating and or escapeist compensatory strategy reasons. Wow.
Georgie 30:12
That’s deep and kind of sad.
Geoff 30:17
The psychology of mukbang. Yeah.
Georgie 30:19
So my problem actually is I don’t have a problem with eating like in a restaurant around my friends for example, and there are people around me eating in person at the same restaurant, things like that. I have a problem with people on video eating.
Geoff 30:38
(laugh)
Georgie 30:38
And it’s not not even, like I can have a zoom call with someone and they can be like, eating. It’s all this, people on YouTube who eat and they’re acting when they’re eating and you like, you may not be able to tell but you feel—I feel it like because, because they’re doing it at the camera, because they’re doing it for the audience. And I can’t stand it, like I actually cannot look at people eating and going, “oh my god, this food is so good”. Like, I don’t know, it really grosses me out in the way that it probably grosses some other people out too.
Geoff 31:10
My partner actually watches quite a few of these types of videos where they go around and eat at different buffets and the—
Georgie 31:18
Review the food?
Geoff 31:18
Review. review is a very loose term. But yeah, my dad—
Georgie 31:25
Is it because they just put one dump—they take a bite of one dumpling and they’re like, “oh, yeah, it’s so good”
Geoff 31:30
I mean, like, when you say everything is amazing, it’s not quite a review.
Georgie 31:36
(laughs) Hashtag sponsored.
Geoff 31:36
And that’s, that’s my dad’s reaction. He goes, ha, all these people. All these people are just like paid to eat. So of course, they’re gonna say it’s good. They’re not gonna say anything bad. Except there’s a law that you have to disclose all your sponsorships. So I think that’s, you know, a little bit disingenuous to say. They, acting, sure. I would agree with that as well. Because why not? You’re on camera?
Georgie 32:02
Yeah, why the fuck would you act while eating, I just don’t understand.
Geoff 32:05
Everyone on camera acts, like to a degree. Even if the food—
Georgie 32:08
Are we acting?
Geoff 32:09
Yeah. 100%.
Georgie 32:12
No, I am an, I am an authentic bitch. 100%
Geoff 32:16
Yeah, I mean, I don’t, I don’t, like if you met me. I won’t dive into you know, the psychology of mukbang with you. But the, oh, would I? I probably would actually. If you brought it up, I’m like, you know what, people are sad. Mukbang is sad. But the, yeah, yeah. I think everyone’s acting whenever our camera’s on anyways.
Georgie 32:42
Have you? Have you seen that reel or like, like a short video of someone pretending to be an Asian mum. And she’s just like, mad and just chatting at her kid and stuff. And then the phone is ringing. Suddenly she picks up the phone and she has her phone voice. She’s like—
Geoff 32:56
Yeah.
Georgie 32:56
“Hello?” You know, I became conscious that I had, I did the same thing. Because like, I mean, it’s not just, it could be like, it’s an any parent thing. I would suspect. I became conscious of that. Like, every time I pick up the phone, I’m like, “hello”. And I’m like, why am I speaking in a different voice from what I do normally?
Geoff 33:13
(laughs) People have different faces for everything, right? You go to work. Everyone’s like, you should bring your authentic self to work. But if you’re like a raging lunatic, you don’t want to like become a raging lunatic at work. So, I think, right, right. So, to the, to the point. I think there’s like some val—there’s definitely value in the people like sitting there eating. Sure. They can say everything’s amazing. But something Marq, Marques Brownlee, or YouTube video, YouTuber MKBHD, who does phone reviews or technology reviews, said one time, was, hey, you don’t you could not agree with anything he says. But as long as you, but but at the end of the day, you know what his taste is in mobile phones, you know exactly what his like, his, like MO is, as a—
Georgie 34:17
Yeah, creator.
Geoff 34:17
As a creator, right? You come here, you know, he’s gonna be like, 4k cameras or how how pixel perfect everything is. And you may not agree. But at least that means you don’t like the things that he likes. And you’ve gained something from that. And if you do agree, that means you like the very specific things he’s talking about. And that’s okay too.
Georgie 34:39
Yeah.
Geoff 34:39
In which case, you can watch these YouTubers and say they go to a bunch of buffets. They take first class flights and stuff like that, and then they can say it’s all amazing, but you could look at that and go, I don’t like that. He says it’s amazing. So you know.
Georgie 34:56
Yeah.
Geoff 34:57
You take out the you take out the fact that this guy really likes seafood, and I’m like, but I don’t like seafood and I know that this guy likes seafood a lot. So hey, I won’t take that as a sign that I’ll start enjoying seafood. No. He’d be like—
Georgie 35:09
Yeah.
Geoff 35:10
“This prawn is amazing”. I’m like, I hate prawn. So now I know that he—
Georgie 35:15
Yeah, yeah.
Geoff 35:16
I’m not gonna go, “oh my god, prawns amazing now”. Oh no, don’t do that.
Georgie 35:20
It’s kind of like our own biases, right like well we even when we talk to people in real life, like take out the internet, but if someone’s like, if you and I were just having a conversation and you’re like, “hey, this movie was amazing Georgie like you should watch it or whatever”, you know, I’m not gonna watch it. I know that you know, that I may not watch it unless you sit me down and watch. And it may not even be to my taste. And I know that when you tell me, but I know that you liked the movie. And I’m like, alright, so if I did want to like expand my horizons, or if I didn’t want to watch that kind of movie, then maybe I would take your recommendation. Right. But yeah.
Geoff 35:57
Yeah. It is one thing to know. You know, understand what people like, so that you know that when they hype it up. You like, it’s, it’s not going to automatically be great for you.
Georgie 36:10
I guess it’s like being aware of other people’s biases.
Geoff 36:12
Yeah, exactly. Being aware of other people’s biases, huge thing that workplace does, you know, they always—we did training, right. Check your biases type training.
Georgie 36:22
Yeah, yeah.
Geoff 36:24
And if your workplace doesn’t do check your biases, then check your own biases for your own health.
Georgie 36:29
We don’t we don’t do that. But like, I do hate Tailwind. That’s my bias.
Geoff 36:35
Tailwind. Oh, my god. I suggested the other day that we converted all of our components to Tailwind.
Georgie 36:44
Get out.
Geoff 36:44
I can’t remember what it was a joke from. But they were like, I guess Geoff’s not passing his probation.
Georgie 36:53
Oh, so you found out that they were actually—
Geoff 36:55
No, I know. I know that. We, we’re not. I was trolling. I was trying to be obvious troll. And they I guess, obviously showed me back. But.
Georgie 37:02
Yeah.
Geoff 37:03
But yeah. Tailwind CSS is a. (laughs) For those who don’t know.
Georgie 37:09
Utility framework for writing.
Geoff 37:11
Yeah. It’s a framework for writing styles for your website. That’s about it.
Georgie 37:16
Yeah, I came across a tweet that said, “trigger a developer in less than five words” or five words or less. There were a few things in there. But I actually had to sit there and think because some of the ones in the, in the responses, I wasn’t sure if I actually...
Geoff 37:31
Yeah.
Georgie 37:31
I think someone was like, “how long will it take?” I’m like oh yeah, I get that one. And then I quoted it and I wrote “CSS is easy”.
Geoff 37:41
Yeah, the, there was a tweet about tailwind recently that got so much attention. I didn’t even go through the thread. But it was essentially everybody. Honestly, anytime you tweet about Tailwind CSS, it gets so much heat, like bad, bad rap. And then you get all the people who really like it just combating people who haven’t tried it, who are just the like theoretically hating, hating on it. And it becomes such a melting pot. And again, we’ve talked about this, it’s just a really weird, it’s like an echo chamber. This is the representative of like 0.001% of the population. But essentially there was a YouTuber who captured that in like, three minutes they were like—
Georgie 38:31
Yeah.
Geoff 38:32
This tweet happened, this argument happened, let’s break down the fight like, the the five reasons like that were represented as as cons, and what are the pros did it really quick and at the end, he goes, but at the end of it, nobody fucking cares. Not a single person. Not a single person cares if you use Tailwind, or don’t use Tailwind, your clients don’t care. Your friends, your colleagues all don’t care.
Georgie 39:01
It’s like a wasted, wasted energy, I think.
Geoff 39:04
Yeah.
Georgie 39:04
Because like I think yeah, at the end of the day, you use whatever works for you. Right, like I just I shit on Tailwind for lols and also because I understand that like it’s not what I, like for my needs, or for what we do at work or whatever. It would just wreak havoc.
Geoff 39:20
Yeah.
Georgie 39:21
I know for some people you want to whatever, set something up really quickly you’re trying to do something, whatever, just go and use it. Fine.
Geoff 39:28
I tweeted something about how like two different like web web frameworks messed up the Tailwind class order so the styles came out wrong. And oh my god the first—
Georgie 39:43
Did you get the tail, did you get—
Geoff 39:44
Yeah.
Georgie 39:44
The Tailwind bros—
Geoff 39:45
Yeah.
Georgie 39:46
Just being all fucking defensive and shit.
Geoff 39:47
The first few responses was like, “you’re just using it wrong”. And I’m like—
Georgie 39:55
(gasps) What the fuck.
Geoff 39:56
Woah. Look yeah.
Georgie 39:58
Oh geez.
Geoff 39:59
But to round off this episode. Um, for those who stuck through this whole Tailwind CSS thing and have no interest in web, in web development. People have said Tailwind is basically describing farts.
Georgie 40:16
Oh my god, no, yeah.
Geoff 40:18
It’s actually a fart framework.
Georgie 40:21
I’ve always disliked the name because it just sounds like talking about wind coming out your bum. It’s just a fart.
Geoff 40:28
But it’s supposed to be you know, in your sails, wind in your, in the tail, on the tail of your ship.
Georgie 40:33
Yeah, but look, we’re humans. And we like to think dirty sometimes.
Geoff 40:37
Yeah.
Georgie 40:37
And it’s just inevitable that our brains would go in that direction. And that’s, that’s my, my bias.
Geoff 40:43
In the downwards direction. Down wind. And on that note, that that’s the end of our episode. So you can follow us on @toastroastpod on Twitter.
Georgie 41:02
And you can find our episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen, your podcasts, and the big giant fucking fart. There you go. I’m done.
Geoff 41:12
And if you do perhaps get get to us on Twitter. Like, tweet at us, if you fart in front of your partner. That’s all I want to know.
Georgie 41:22
(laughs) Why do you want to know?
Geoff 41:24
That’s all I wanna know?
Georgie 41:24
Yes.
Geoff 41:26
The answer is nobody cares Geoff. Nobody fucking cares.
Georgie 41:30
You said, you said in front of your partner. What about behind them? What about to the side—
Geoff 41:33
(laughs) Downwind, downwind from your partner. Upwind? The answer’s yes. And, so new episodes every Monday.
Georgie 41:46
See you next week.
Geoff 41:47
Bye