Disclaimer: We are not scientists. Just two introverts with opinions.
✍🏻 View the transcript for this episode
Disclaimer: We are not scientists. Just two introverts with opinions.
Georgie 0:09
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Toast & Roast. I’m your co host, Georgie. And as usual, I’m here with Geoff.
Geoff 0:16
Hello. It is...
Georgie 0:19
I was ,gonna I was gonna say what day it was and then I realised, I don’t want to do that.
Geoff 0:22
Yeah. We’re not allowed to tell people the day. That’d be crazy. Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s kind of one of those days where it’s like a cool down day. You know, like—
Georgie 0:36
(laughs)
Geoff 0:36
Bunch of, you—
Georgie 0:37
You know, when you say that I think of like how, after a workout, like, intense HIIT workout, you cool down, ah you stretch, you cool down.
Geoff 0:45
Yeah.
Georgie 0:45
I’m like, have you been working out all week or something?
Geoff 0:47
No, I have to cool down from from whenever I have, like, large. Like, people interactions, like—
Georgie 0:57
Ah okay.
Geoff 0:58
Large group of people interactions.
Georgie 1:00
Yeah. So is it specifically the group is large? Like so compared to a smaller group?
Geoff 1:07
I suppose. I suppose. It’s, it was a that housewarming I went to. There was a lot of people who actually actually didn’t know 80% of them. It was a large group of eight, I think, eight. And I didn’t know, five out of the eight, I guess including me. No, I mean, I knew me. (laughs) I knew me.
Georgie 1:32
But did you talk to the people that you didn’t know and get to know them in any way?
Geoff 1:37
Oh, no. It’s just sort of like whenever I do group when I, whenever there’s like a group?
Georgie 1:43
Yeah.
Geoff 1:43
You—well, I tend to, I don’t know how many people do this. But I tend to try and involve everybody in the conversation or—
Georgie 1:50
Yeah.
Geoff 1:50
The topic at the same time. Right. And I say that I don’t know how many people do this. Because it kind of proved my statis, my, my statistical thinking with that with that group.
Georgie 2:05
Yeah.
Geoff 2:05
So yeah. So it takes a lot of energy. And that’s generally just how I think like, what makes good group compensations is as long as you try and like involve everybody. So.
Georgie 2:19
The bigger the group, the more difficult it is to have everybody quite literally involved in the one—
Geoff 2:25
Exactly.
Georgie 2:25
Conversation.
Geoff 2:26
Exactly.
Georgie 2:27
And it also depends on, I don’t know, actually, I don’t know what it depends on. But I was in a similar situation. Not too long ago, went out for got invited to a dinner. And Nick was there. And then there were four other people. So group of, a group of six.
Geoff 2:45
Yeah.
Georgie 2:45
And at times, it was like some one person talking about, like telling a story. And then everybody listening to that, and then sharing or like responding. And other times, we’d just kind of break off. It was like, maybe three of the people were sort of in one conversation. And three other people were in another conversation. But it was, we were at the same table?
Geoff 3:05
Yeah. I remember—
Georgie 3:06
And it’s only, quote unquote, only a group of six.
Geoff 3:09
Yeah, I remember this happening back when I worked for Deloitte, where you would, the whole team, the team is probably like, minimum 10, we would go out have some kind of meal. And that’s impossible, right? You’d have five on one side and five on the other side, and you just diverge in topic. And I’m kind of okay with that. Like, that’s not, that’s something that bothers me in, in group scenarios, is just sort of like it, in some cases it is just the group, they’re all trying to communicate, we’re trying to talk to the people as a group. And—
Georgie 3:47
Yeah.
Geoff 3:48
Bbecause I didn’t know anyone there. It just made it a little bit more difficult to, I don’t know, achieve some kind of optimal group conversation.
Georgie 3:56
Oh. Yeah, actually, you’re right. If you don’t know, the people in the group, then I think it’s actually more difficult to start conversation because you sort of don’t really know what to go off. Maybe someone in the group you haven’t seen in a while, and you can be like, oh, yeah, what did you get up to the last time you, whatever, and you have context, whereas if you literally don’t anybody, like even most of them, then you don’t know how to include them and you also don’t know how to really talk to them. Literally.
Geoff 4:23
And it’s not even my group. So it’s, it’s also—
Georgie 4:27
Is it your partner’s group or something?
Geoff 4:28
Probably not my, my, like, you know, responsibility to have the conversation keep going.
Georgie 4:36
I don’t, I don’t think it’s anyone’s responsibility
Geoff 4:38
Yeah but it’s sort of like I feel like—
Georgie 4:40
Social obligation?
Geoff 4:41
Not obligation, sort of like just naturally, I’m, we’re in a group situation. I’m not like 100% extroverted so when it comes to group and or social occasions, like so I, you turn it up. And then you attempt to, I don’t know, socialise, as such.
Georgie 5:06
Right, so you’re not like a listener observer sort, like you tend to—
Geoff 5:12
Yeah, I guess I could—
Georgie 5:13
Yeah.
Geoff 5:14
I could try that. But yeah, I don’t know I my natural tendency is I appear quite extroverted to people. If you ever see me at a con, not even conferences, god, at conferences I literally—
Georgie 5:28
It’s like a different—
Geoff 5:29
Don’t even talk me to at conferences. But yeah, social settings. I usually like like to, you know, turn up the socialness, because it’s not very often that I go into his like bigs, big ish, or multi people social interactions. So it’s sort of like—
Georgie 5:49
I think I—
Geoff 5:50
...a team, and then you kind of have the sort of—
Georgie 5:54
I don’t like to start the conversation. This is this is me all the time, like I am introverted. Like people, people tie me out if I like hang out with people too much.
Geoff 6:03
Yeah.
Georgie 6:03
Hence the, yeah. But I don’t really start the conversation. If someone starts talking to me, I’m like, you are going to regret what you just did, I’m gonna not shut up. So it’s, it’s like the conference thing or like I do a talk and I don’t appear, like I appear more extroverted. Because, I don’t know why. Right. Like, a lot of people who speak at conferences, people assume that they’re extroverted, because they speak in public and like, no, no, no.
Geoff 6:26
No.
Georgie 6:27
Anyway, they’ve come up to me and—
Geoff 6:28
There’s no back and forth in a conference. You just—yell at people.
Georgie 6:32
Yeah. And then I’ll tell them, I’m like, not, “I’m shy”. But like, I’m introverted. And yeah, I’m just gonna, I’ve done my talk, and I’m gonna stand in the corner. And people were like, oh, you’re not gonna hang out around them, whatever, canape table? Oh, hell no.
Geoff 6:46
Talk to the other speakers. Aren’t you a speaker group?
Georgie 6:50
Yeah. Yeah, but I noticed that Nick is more of a observer listener. And then he’ll say something if someone like directly asks him, like, Oh, what do you think, Nick, or whatever?
Geoff 7:02
Yeah.
Georgie 7:03
Or, like he finds something he has something like to say, but I don’t know.
Geoff 7:08
Yeah.
Georgie 7:09
It’s different.
Geoff 7:12
It’s, I think, I know people call like, compare introversion to like, a battery.
Georgie 7:20
Yeah, yeah.
Geoff 7:22
Common. Yeah. So if people don’t know, it’s sort of like, let’s say you have a battery. And you’re the, the thing that charges your battery is different for introverts versus extroverts. So introverts tend to just, you know, silent, alone. Plus partner. Just not having to have any social pressure. It like kind of increases the energy and then when we socialise, we deplete the battery. So over like social energy battery. I mean, some people have it deplete faster or slower but that’s the general gist.
Georgie 8:01
Yeah, this is the interesting thing. So like and I think it’s interesting to talk about because extrovert, true extroverts don’t understand that we need to like be away from people.
Geoff 8:11
Yes.
Georgie 8:11
Because they like no, I can’t stand being by, by myself. Yeah, so the way my battery depletes is, I think it’s more of a like, the intensity of the social situation can really drain me quite quick.
Geoff 8:29
Yeah.
Georgie 8:29
So if I just have one like outing or whatever, in in a week and it, there’s a lot of people and the environment is maybe loud like at a bar or something then I will want to leave in an hour, within an hour or something like a Christmas party for example, like a work Christmas party, and like this is great and all and it’s not that I’m not I’m not having a good time. It’s just that all of the stuff is like sensory overload and yeah, whereas for Nick the the interesting thing I found, like so (laughs) he said, he said “I’m not like you” okay, and he said he said I, come back home, and I go “oh my god I don’t want to talk to you”, or like “leave me alone” like we’ll come back from like maybe seeing family for a whole day or going out to something and I’ll be like, “oh my god, I don’t want to talk to anyone for like five days” like that, but that is the mood. And he said it for him it’s actually not like it doesn’t feel like that, like he doesn’t tire but he actually doesn’t mind like going out as well. But he’s definitely like an introverted person.
Geoff 9:32
That’s the yeah, the the quiet listeners it yeah, my partner’s also I think that that same type, so like, it doesn’t drain their battery because they’re quiet listeners. But I guess I’m not one of those. Yeah, the other thing is so for, for extroverts, they’re battery actually is charged by having those social interactions, right? They just love to have social interactions, because it gives them energy. And that’s perfectly fine too.
Georgie 10:12
I just find it so hard to imagine that for someone who is the opposite. Like, I’m just like, what do you mean, you go outside? And you feel like... because like, I don’t mind the occasional small talk?
Geoff 10:21
Yes.
Georgie 10:21
Oh, here’s something I realised, right with small talk. Because I’ve been like, over the past year, I’ve been trying to engage in it a little bit more, because I was, I was concerned that I just look like a bitch. (laughs) Like that I have resting bitchface or something. And so I thought, I want to, like, appear friendly to people. So I thought maybe I can start by like, you know, when I go and get a coffee or something, or when I’m out and about like, I am—
Geoff 10:47
But are you friendly?
Georgie 10:48
Or open to help—I am. And then I found that those interactions are a little bit more energizing, uplifting, because you kind of like you just go have like a, what, 20-second chat with someone you’re ordering coffee or food from.
Geoff 11:07
Yeah.
Georgie 11:08
And there’s no pressure to continue because it’s short. And it’s also the fact that they’re a stranger means that if you fuck this shit up, they might, you might never see them again. Like, it doesn’t matter. Like if you embarrass yourself, it also kind of doesn’t matter.
Geoff 11:23
That’s also kind of like, it puts a metaphor in my head when you say that. It’s like, sprinting rather than a marathon. But at the same time, you get more you get more energy from doing that way as you lose a lot of energy when you sprint. So maybe not the correct metaphor, but it’s like I’m a sprinter, not a mara, marathoner as the like, quick, short, sharp is the, is this the preferred.
Georgie 11:51
Yeah.
Geoff 11:53
...cadence? I think, yeah. Short, sharp interactions aren’t too bad. They probably deeply, like very minor amounts if you just do that often enough. But yeah, generally, if big event group thing. Oh, that’s right. Concerts, concerts? Do they deplete your social energy, despite having no social aspect?
Georgie 12:27
No, I know, because it’s not it’s not so it’s not super social?
Geoff 12:30
Yeah.
Georgie 12:31
Yeah, I usually go with one person, or like a couple of people. So, and it’s not super interactive with the people, you’re all experiencing the same thing. But you’re not really talking to each other.
Geoff 12:48
Yeah.
Georgie 12:49
You’re, you’re consuming like the concert? I suppose. So if you did, if you are the kind of person who gets tired from concerts, because it’s like too much, you know, music too much like lights from like, from the senses, then, yeah, that makes sense. But from a social aspect, like no. And also, you know, how I went to concerts by myself?
Geoff 13:10
Yeah.
Georgie 13:11
That, they, they wouldn’t deplete my social better, because I was on my fucking own. I just go there and watch. And sit, stand, like, whether I was at the front or the back, you know, I didn’t have to, like, spend energy on I don’t know, I guess having like a two way connection, like connecting with someone sort of thing. Because in concerts, it’s more or less a performance. I know the artists sometimes interact with the audience. But they’re performing and you’re watching that. So it’s, yeah, it’s not a social thing. And I’d just get tired just because it was late or something like that.
Geoff 13:46
Yeah. And I think that kind of points towards the fact that a lot of people think introverts don’t like to go out and do things.
Georgie 13:52
Yeah.
Geoff 13:52
It’s like, oh you’re introverted, so you don’t actually go see movies. You don’t go outside, like, like, like a—
Georgie 13:59
Like a hermit?
Geoff 14:00
Yeah, it’s more of a hermit.
Georgie 14:03
I think there are, so I think there are three, what do you call it. aspects to this that people always conflate? And one of them is introvert introversion versus extraversion. The other one is a homebody versus just going out, right. And then the other one is shyness, which I heard, like everyone conflated that with, like, like, when I was younger, everybody thought that shy automatically means introvert, I guess. And like—
Geoff 14:31
I can see that.
Georgie 14:32
I actually, yeah, now I am not a shy person. But I definitely remember being shy when I was younger. Because I didn’t have the confidence to like talk to people. I’d be deathly afraid of going up and ordering food. Like my mum would be like, go up and just say I want a cheeseburger or whatever. And I’m like, no, no, I’m shy, no, I don’t want to talk to you. I don’t want to open my mouth. So it’s interesting because introverts are all different people as well. Like I don’t think I’m a shy introvert, but maybe there is a shy introvert out there.
Geoff 14:59
Yeah.
Georgie 14:59
There’s probably many so yeah.
Geoff 15:02
Exception to the, not the rule but the exception to the rule. Not the rule. Rule... No, that’s not how that works. It, we’re we’re not the anyways, you get what I mean?
Georgie 15:14
Yeah, I feel like I’m digging in like this box of like sayings and trying to like, it’s like you’re trying to find one that matches the current topic. You’re like nope, nope. That one? No, no.
Geoff 15:24
No, not the rule. Not the exception to the rule. But the rule. I don’t know. I can’t remember the exact thing. But yeah.
Georgie 15:31
I don’t know if—yeah, anyway, I know. Yeah.
Geoff 15:34
Everyone gets the gist. So yeah, it’s sort of like after, after quite a few. It was just nice to chill at home. Do absolutely nothing.
Georgie 15:46
Yeah.
Geoff 15:47
Record a podcast.
Georgie 15:50
See the—(laughs). My, my friend actually asked me like, oh, dammit, I think I have to give context for this one, unfortunately. But we recorded an episode at night once.
Geoff 16:00
Yeah.
Georgie 16:00
And my friend thought—I mentioned this to my friend. And they, they’re probably listening to this and like, laughing out loud because I’m like—
Geoff 16:09
They’re content to you.
Georgie 16:11
I’m talking about—
Geoff 16:11
Do you guys realise, all of our friends are now content.
Georgie 16:14
(laughs)
Geoff 16:16
I never wanted this to happen.
Georgie 16:17
(laughs) Well, I guess it depends, right. I know like some of some of my friends who listen, they’re OK with being named dropped, and they think it’s funny.
Geoff 16:27
Yeah.
Georgie 16:28
Um, I others. I’m not sure. So I just go you know, whatever. But anyway. (laughs)
Geoff 16:33
We don’t hang out with our friends just for content. Just, FYI.
Georgie 16:37
Yeah, so anyway, this friend of mine, because I’m not sure if they want me to disclose that was them that said this comment.
Geoff 16:42
Okay.
Georgie 16:43
But they do listen to the pod. Anyway. They said that. Oh, wow. That’s like, it was eight o’clock, we’ll just say, alright, we’ll just say what time it was. We were recording at eight. And they were like, oh, I would like just be not, like I don’t want to do, I wouldn’t want to do any work like that late. Like, it just wouldn’t, you know? And I’m like, yeah, but this isn’t work.
Geoff 17:04
Yeah, it’s like a phone call.
Georgie 17:04
Like, Geoff and I like talk shit. You know. Like yeah, it is like, it literally is like a phone call.
Geoff 17:13
Just a weekly, weekly phone call.
Georgie 17:16
Yeah.
Geoff 17:18
So yeah.
Georgie 17:18
And so it doesn’t, it doesn’t like it doesn’t tire me also I think others other people, other friends who listen to the pod they’ve like, how do you like do this every week, don’t you, don’t you get tired of talking to each other or something like that. I was like, I, we don’t like hang out too much like outside of this. And this is like the only time we kind of chat.
Geoff 17:18
Yeah, yeah. It is. It is good. I think that it’s, does it, well, if it starts feeling like work, we’ll just, we’ll just cut, we’ll just axe the show. No goodbyes, no nothing. We disappear into the ethos.
Georgie 17:57
Don’t you mean aether?
Geoff 17:58
Ethos? Aether? Aether.
Georgie 18:01
Ethos is like a way of—
Geoff 18:03
Brain’s not working.
Georgie 18:03
...philosophy. Actually speaking of like ending shit, right? Like, I there’s a, there’s a band called Explosions in the Sky. And they do mostly instrumental music. And earlier this year, as in a few months ago, they said, hey, we’re gonna do a tour. It’s called The End tour. And then fans were like, oh, shit, does that mean it’s their last tour? That sounds very, like, you know, final. Does that mean it’s the last tour or whatever. And then I got an email recently, I think it was sometime this week. And they said they have a new album. And it quite literally is called End. So it was a tour. It’s a tour for an album called End.
Geoff 18:47
Is it their last album?
Georgie 18:48
It’s called the End—well—
Geoff 18:49
Could it be their last one?
Georgie 18:50
I don’t know. See. It could be, it could be but I don’t know. I would say their music is pretty experimental as it is. And so so I don’t know. It might not be.
Geoff 19:01
It might be.
Georgie 19:02
Their first album since like—
Geoff 19:03
Maybe they’re trolling.
Georgie 19:05
They could be. But—oh you ever, have you ever heard of a band, like have you heard when a band like breaks up? And everyone is upset because it’s like final? And then they come back?
Geoff 19:15
Yeah, it, was it the Eagles that has done this before. I feel like—
Georgie 19:19
I don’t know about the Eagles. But there are other bands I know who have done it. Now. What do you think? If you were a fan of band, is there an appropriate amount of time that you think is you know, before they’re like, “Oh, we’re gonna get back together” or whatever?
Geoff 19:35
I don’t know. I don’t get, I don’t I’m not a fan of anything. Really. I did meet someone the other day that said that they flew, they flew to a different country for a weekend. We’re talking about—
Georgie 19:51
The Weeknd?
Geoff 19:52
...hours. No, not for The Weeknd, a weekend. So—
Georgie 19:55
Oh okay. Like I thought it was like the musician that we, yeah go on
Geoff 19:59
They flew eight hours for their favourite band’s final concert. And I feel like if they just got back together the next day, you just probably a bit, I did joke. I was like, Are you sure? It’s the final one? Like, could they just be trolling?
Georgie 20:20
Yeah.
Geoff 20:21
So yeah.
Georgie 20:22
Eight hours.
Geoff 20:23
Eight hour flight.
Georgie 20:24
So you know, Armor For Sleep, right? Have randomly mentioned them on the pod, you know them?
Geoff 20:29
Yes.
Georgie 20:31
Back in? What was it? Maybe 2008 or 2009? Or was it? Hang on. Before Ben Jorgensen the frontman had his own like solo career for a bit. They said that Armor For Sleep was breaking up. And then the guy just I think he went on his solo career for a bit. So when they broke up, like I, I was like, I’m not expecting you to come to Australia or whatever. And so they announced some shows in, in the US, and I was like, thinking I was, I was legitimately thinking, should I just get like a ticket to like New Jersey, New York, New Jersey, whatever? To see them? Like, do the final show or whatever? Because at the time, I was like a teenager, I was like, this means a lot to me.
Geoff 21:10
(laughs) This means a lot ot me.
Georgie 21:11
And I’d never, yeah, I never... Like I hadn’t been to many, if any concerts at the time. So it was very irrational thinking. I think I could afford it. I think I’m pretty sure back then it was like $1,000 return. I don’t know. Something. Not too bad. But for someone who’s, like—
Geoff 21:32
Not earning money.
Georgie 21:33
Doesn’t have a job. Yeah, I think I had like, I think I was working at fucking Kumon. $7 an hour, bitches. Stupid shit.
Geoff 21:41
You know what the, do you know what the American, Americans like, minimum wage is?
Georgie 21:49
Is it like, is it like $7? $8, $9?
Geoff 21:54
It’s about $7.25 per hour.
Georgie 21:57
Jesus. Yeah, but I think I was being underpaid at the time.
Geoff 22:01
I mean—
Georgie 22:01
I’m pretty sure it was—
Geoff 22:02
Kumon was always so shady. I feel like it was like mom and pops. You know. Who, who—
Georgie 22:08
Yeah.
Geoff 22:09
They just start this Kumon centre because their kid needs Kumon. And then—
Georgie 22:15
That’s what it felt like to—
Geoff 22:16
Pay cash when you walk in.
Georgie 22:18
Yeah, it’s yeah. But the funny thing is, I think I might have mentioned this, like on a recent episode, I found out that an old colleague of mine had actually worked there as well. And she said the pay was good for her. I was like—
Geoff 22:31
Relative.
Georgie 22:32
...wasn’t good for me. And she said it paid better... I think she might have said she got $20 an hour.
Geoff 22:37
What?
Georgie 22:38
Which that for me was like my first like, whatever data entry design agency type of like job where I was like, oh, my god, I’m a rich bitch. Anyway, yeah, I thought about going all the way to America, or I’ve never been to fucking America to see a band. And then, notably, they got back together, I think last year.
Geoff 23:02
Yeah.
Georgie 23:02
So that was a decent period of time. But I’ve heard of some bands that it doesn’t seem like a decent period of time. So Violent Soho, a band from Queensland, they broke up sometime, I don’t know, might have been 2017 or something like that. And I think I was gonna go and see them. But they’re Australian, so you know, easy, don’t have to travel far. Obviously, there was a show here. And I think I actually got very, very sick. So I just, you know, admitted defeat and didn’t end up seeing them. And then they got back together, and then released an album and we saw them like last year or something, which is where I where we would laugh and think we probably got COVID from because it was in like March 2022.
Geoff 23:47
Right.
Georgie 23:48
And then they, again, they broke up again. So I’m like, well hang on a minute. I know you broke up and then you were back together. Released a cool album. And then you bro—so there’s some bands where it’s just like, the period of time I’m like, is that even acceptable? Like you make a big deal out of breaking up and then you? Well, I don’t think these guys did. But.
Geoff 24:06
All the hype is to get everyone into the into their shows, and then out. It’s a cynical take. But hey, you would have only had to work 142 hours to—
Georgie 24:18
What do you mean?
Geoff 24:19
To get $1,000.
Georgie 24:19
Oh like for the—
Geoff 24:21
For that.
Georgie 24:22
Yeah.
Geoff 24:24
And then you do 142...
Georgie 24:25
At Kumon. Wait did you divided by seven?
Geoff 24:27
Divide it by like, yeah, divide by seven. So that’s how many hours I guess you have to work. But now it’s like, okay, how many days? I guess you have 8 hour days? So seventeen—
Georgie 24:27
No. Kumon’s different.
Geoff 24:35
I know, it’s only like three hours. So.
Georgie 24:42
Kumon is like six hours a week?
Geoff 24:44
Six hours a week?
Georgie 24:45
Yes. So there’s fucking no way.
Geoff 24:48
142 divided by six is equal to, that’s 23 weeks. That’s a half a year, maybe, like if you get more or less consistent hours. That’s a whole, that could be a year. Yeah, a year worth of work to get a thousand, just a thousand dollars. That’s just the flight, right?
Georgie 25:09
Yeah, exactly.
Geoff 25:10
But no, the person was saying that they went there for a just a weekend. So it’s literally—oh, no, they didn’t say, was it 1, 2, 3? I guess three or four nights. So it wasn’t just a weekend. So $1,000, go to see your favorite band.
Georgie 25:27
So they did that?
Geoff 25:28
They did that.
Georgie 25:28
And did the band ever get back together yet or—
Geoff 25:31
Not yet, I mean, it only happened, I think a few, like a few months ago. Yeah.
Georgie 25:36
Okay. So that’s quite recent.
Geoff 25:37
Yeah, I did—I mean, they would have probably said that the band got back together. After a couple of months.
Georgie 25:45
Why would you do it, a couple of months. I’m trying to think of a band that—so I think Anberlin was the one that I liked. They broke up in like, 2012. I was quite upset because they were great. And then I think it was only about four or five years later that they got back together. 2016 or 2015?
Geoff 26:04
Well, I think I think it may feel insulting, because people may have gone through—
Georgie 26:13
Emotional trauma?
Geoff 26:16
Trauma and all that stuff to see you. But at the same time, they should be just as happy to get another album, if it’s the same type of music, I guess. But you know, everyone should just go listen to our most listened to episode, other than our first one—
Georgie 26:32
Which one?
Geoff 26:32
I think it’s actually called “Let let artists be artists”. It’s—
Georgie 26:36
Oh, wow, I didn’t realise it was that popular.
Geoff 26:38
Yeah, it’s, it’s quite interesting.
Georgie 26:42
Oh, yeah. Another example is like talking about bigger bands. So like KISS, right?
Geoff 26:47
Yeah.
Georgie 26:47
They did a farewell show tour, whatever, last year, and Nick’s dad went to see them. And what did they do? Announce another one for this year.
Geoff 26:57
Hahaha.
Georgie 26:57
So you know, he was I remember, he was quite excited to go last year. And I think we asked him, are you gonna go this year, and he was like, oh, no, it’s done. Like, I’ve already I’ve already seen them.
Geoff 27:08
Aw.
Georgie 27:09
And then another example is Elton John. Right. So he had the word Farewell Yellow Brick Road tour, or whatever it is.
Geoff 27:14
Was that, was that actually a farewell tour?
Georgie 27:17
Yeah, so them when we saw him in January, that was supposed to be like, oh, yeah, I mean, that’s that was his last time so it was, we thought, fuck it. Let’s just last chance to see him. But then if he does one next year, I’ll just be like, dude. He’s, no offense, but he’s getting to probably an age where he can’t, he may not be able to perform much longer either.
Geoff 27:42
Yeah, I imagine at this, at this stage, he just does it for fun. Not so much for the income. But who knows, he could be living paycheck to paycheck.
Georgie 27:52
Yeah.
Geoff 27:55
So apparently, I’m wrong. It’s dropped to the number three. It’s been eclipsed by episode 44. So that’s quite interesting.
Georgie 28:05
“Ooh, la la”, is what it’s called.
Geoff 28:06
Yeah, I had to look into what actually the episode was about. Yeah, it was about changing the windows, not safe for work stuff with child like appearances.
Georgie 28:20
It was the child like appearance thing.
Geoff 28:22
Yeah.
Georgie 28:23
And I think we might have just touched on some more sexual content, I think.
Geoff 28:27
Yeah.
Georgie 28:27
Like controversially sexual stuff.
Geoff 28:30
In any case, that’s, we should, we should just start changing our content, apparently. Because that’s what we do here. We plan all of these conversations.
Georgie 28:40
I’m just wondering why Episode One has the most downloads.
Geoff 28:44
I don’t know.
Georgie 28:44
Back when I didn’t have a mic.
Geoff 28:46
Yeah. Yeah. Now your microphone here. We’re getting way more listens.
Georgie 28:52
Wait, what’s the most recent episode in that list?
Geoff 28:55
It is, it is—oh, “Peering into your neighbours’ apartments”. (laughs)
Georgie 28:57
(laughs) No wait, episode 60, “I’d like to be under the—”
Geoff 29:01
Oh 60. Oh, sorry. Yeah, I thought forgot, forgot we’re like, pretty high in the numbers. Yeah, “I’d like to be under the sea”. That’s quite interesting. What was that one about?
Georgie 29:10
It must have been the Beatle’s song Octopus’ Garden right? Like—
Geoff 29:13
Err...
Georgie 29:15
Oh, I waited for a concert for three years.
Geoff 29:19
Escape rooms. So, anyways, yeah, I think if, if the, I mean, it’s kind of close to but not really close to you know, how celebrities, they’re always getting together and they’re breaking up again. And people, people will follow that stuff as closely as bands getting broken up and then back together again. And I don’t know, I think artists and whatever can just do whatever they want. Because.
Georgie 29:50
Yeah but you just said you’re not really a fan of anything. So it doesn’t, you don’t get attached to that point.
Geoff 29:54
Let’s see, let’s see what would be the closest thing I guess if Apple stopped making products would I be particularly bothered by that? Not really.
Georgie 30:03
I feel like that’s—oh, you wouldn’t. Okay.
Geoff 30:06
I’d just go back to Android. It’s not that bad. Android. It’s worse, but not that bad.
Georgie 30:12
I think some people might react to social media.
Geoff 30:16
Social—
Georgie 30:16
Changing.
Geoff 30:17
...media changing. Oh, you mean like Threads?
Georgie 30:18
Yeah kike, or just—ugh. Yeah that’s right, you wanted to talk about this?
Geoff 30:23
Eventually, I guess.
Georgie 30:26
So people making jokes about Mastodon, right.
Geoff 30:28
Yeah.
Georgie 30:29
And I find that funny.
Geoff 30:30
What are the jokes?
Georgie 30:32
Well, people know that Twitter is, like dead now. And I’ll say something like, oh, blah, blah, blah, Mastodon, and then I’ll tell people that, you know, I have an account there, I don’t really use it. But I’ll say you can still post there if you want, and they’ll be like, “heheheh, Mastodon”. No one wants to use it. And I’m like, but I’m on there.
Geoff 30:57
Haha... ahaa.
Georgie 30:57
Look, I don’t care. Like I think I think we probably summed this up in an episode before where I like, even though I feel like I have some attachment to Twitter, because I was like, an early ish adopter. And I met a lot of friends through there, and it, you know, helped in my professional career or whatever. I if it just like went completely disappeared tomorrow, I wouldn’t really care. But at the same time, I’m not gonna like make a statement of like leaving or like, deactivating my account?
Geoff 31:26
Yeah. So is, is, is Twitter actually like, going down? Probably?
Georgie 31:35
I don’t know. Because I don’t really use it anymore.
Geoff 31:40
It’s the classic echo chamber. Like do you remember the, I was talking about Hogwarts Legacy, way back.
Georgie 31:47
Yeah.
Geoff 31:47
Maybe.
Georgie 31:49
Yep.
Geoff 31:49
If affected sales, like, like 0%. It didn’t damage any of the, like, no matter how much shit was talked about online, it didn’t affect the sales, they still broke records.
Georgie 32:05
Yeah.
Geoff 32:06
It’s kind of similar to Netflix is controversial making people who share accounts pay.
Georgie 32:14
So there’s been, it hasn’t actually changed.
Geoff 32:17
It, they they’re up revenue. Like, they’re up five times their revenue, the estimated revenue of after this change. So the internet is like 100% echo chamber, just people 5, 10 people all just saying the same thing to each other. And then like, everyone jumping on this hype around it, which is why I’m not entirely sure Twitter is actually like, this, it’s losing its most active users.
Georgie 32:49
Well, it’s lost me as an active user. Like, I just post my blog posts on there. And then I leave. I don’t even really like, I don’t look at anything. Like I have the app. But honestly, like, I think my friend wanted to send me something through Twitter, because you know, you can’t you can’t see the previews anymore, because of the fucking API being like—
Geoff 33:06
Oh, true.
Georgie 33:06
Yeah, so like, she sent me something on there on, like, a direct message, and I don’t have notifications on. So it was just one day like two weeks later, I go in there, and I’m like oh, who’s messaged me? And and and then I was like, oh, shit, right? She’s supposed to show me something. So I genuinely don’t even really use it anymore.
Geoff 33:24
Yeah, it was one of those things where like, for Facebook, I wanted to get rid of Messenger. But Messenger, there’s like, a bunch of people who only use Messenger to talk. So I was like, well, I can’t really delete, delete. But I haven’t had to use—oh, I sell things on Facebook Marketplace. So I can’t actually delete my account. Maybe I’ll just make a second—
Georgie 33:47
Fuck these corporations.
Geoff 33:49
Yeah, make a second account and then like, delete my actual one. And then like, wipe myself from the internet. The face to the internet. Theoretically, because I think technically you can never remove yourself from the internet.
Georgie 34:03
I have such a presence that even if I tried, you’d find remnants of me.
Geoff 34:07
Yeah, remember how cool it was to have your name like in Google searches? I mean, I thought it was cool.
Georgie 34:12
Oh, my goodness. Wait, is it, wait, is it still cool? Is it not cool?
Geoff 34:17
I don’t know if it’s cool or not. But I like back in the day for us, I suppose.
Georgie 34:21
“Hi, I’m Geoff”. (laughs)
Geoff 34:23
For us, I suppose back in the day when we didn’t have our jobs. It was like important to to have some kind of presence for freelancing purposes, at least for me.
Georgie 34:34
Yeah.
Geoff 34:34
So having an account on everything, being hyper present, made sense. But like these days, I guess I can kill them all off, I don’t care.
Georgie 34:45
Yeah, I’d argue that like it’s probably because we’ve also moved up in our careers as well. So that sort of quote unquote need—
Geoff 34:52
Yeah.
Georgie 34:53
...not really there anymore. It’s kind of, I don’t know, I feel almost a bit sad about it. I kind of, I just don’t care enough, either.
Geoff 35:02
Yeah. I remember one time someone asked me if they could do if they could connect with me on LinkedIn. This is not that time.
Georgie 35:11
You’ve, you’ve—no? Okay, different story.
Geoff 35:13
Different story, different story. I told that story too many times. No, they asked if they could connect with me on LinkedIn. And I said, no. And they asked why I was like, “Well, we haven’t worked together”. So therefore, and this the same reason I gave back back in the other story. But they responded with like, something along the lines of, well, that sounds pretty good for you, someone who doesn’t use the connections kind of way? I’m like, ooh, yeah, that’s kind of true. It’s sort of like, I don’t need people’s connections to get by in the world, but other people need the connections sometimes. Whether or not they’re early career or trying to switch careers or even—
Georgie 35:57
I think you did tell this story.
Geoff 35:59
Maybe. Hopefully, I didn’t say too much about the story because I can’t talk about it. Wink wink, nudge, nudge nudge. It may have been like a juror. So—
Georgie 36:14
Haha I was gonna say, does this relate to your story about being in jury duty.
Geoff 36:20
Yeah, can’t, just can’t, talk about it. Um, so it was it was like, oh, yeah, I maybe have to check my privilege and allow like some kinda connections and for for people who don’t know, need the connections to, like, start work or whatever.
Georgie 36:41
Oh, I don’t know, though. Like, simply being connected with someone is not, doesn’t mean anything,
Geoff 36:48
Does it? Not? Maybe?
Georgie 36:52
Yeah.
Geoff 36:52
Maybe, maybe recruiters? Like, for LinkedIn maybe—
Georgie 36:56
I don’t—
Geoff 36:57
Maybe, I don’t know. I haven’t actually...
Georgie 36:59
I don’t—yeah.
Geoff 37:01
Anyway, that was like, eight years ago, so I don’t think I don’t think—it may have mattered to them. And maybe they’ve found intrinsic value in having LinkedIn connections, which I didn’t consider. But yeah, I’m like if I ever worked with you, then I will connect with you. But at the same time, I’ve still got some connections that I haven’t worked with. Am I connected with you? Probably.
Georgie 37:27
You’d better check. Yeah, nah I think you are.
Geoff 37:30
But we haven’t worked together.
Georgie 37:30
I don’t. I don’t go on LinkedIn.
Geoff 37:34
It’s surprisingly apparently, it’s quite popular.
Georgie 37:37
It is now. Trash fire though.
Geoff 37:40
Yeah.
Georgie 37:41
You’re just gonna have to look me up.
Geoff 37:43
Probably.
Georgie 37:45
Georgie!
Geoff 37:47
Yeah, we are.
Georgie 37:47
First. Yeah.
Geoff 37:48
But we have never worked together. I was just bringing this up thing called Pimseyes? Pimeyes?
Georgie 37:56
Pimeyes... It sounds familiar.
Geoff 37:59
Yeah, apparently, it’s not. So you get to basically—
Georgie 38:06
Is it new?
Geoff 38:07
Oh, no.
Georgie 38:09
OK.
Geoff 38:09
Basically, you can pay or do something to opt out of the Pimeyes like reverse image search. Someone on Twitter who’s had a pretty rough time with revenge porn, used the service to try and remove because it picked up some images of their past. It picked it up when you did a reverse face search in this Pimeyes.
Georgie 38:41
Right.
Geoff 38:42
And—
Georgie 38:42
Yeah.
Geoff 38:43
This is after she’s gone through I think she went through a lot of legal.
Georgie 38:48
Yeah.
Geoff 38:49
To to get like sites and and various places that hosted it to remove the revenge porn.
Georgie 38:57
Yeah.
Geoff 38:58
But Pimeyes, I still brought it up. So that was the major controversy that she started writing about on Twitter about like, I’ve opted out I’ve asked them to do it so many times it’s like it still comes up and stuff like that. Probably not true now, it was quite a while ago when I read this, but this is also a very interesting—
Georgie 39:19
So do you think they’ve done better at this or something?
Geoff 39:21
I have no idea, I, they didn’t complain about it recently. So I suppose might have solved, been solved, but it’s uh...
Georgie 39:30
Something that I feel like this relates to is I’ve seen some influencers on Instagram claimed that those shitty scammy brands have just taken their photos to promote some scammy products. So I guess an example I can give is a fitness influencer, tried on some, tried on some, clothes. I don’t even think they were from very popular brand like GymShark, they, I think they’re just like whatever. But I think she posted them on Instagram. And then some dodgy like Asian brand, whatever, used her picture for their ad to sell a product that was not, you know the same but it was similar and therefore giving people the impression, and because like her picture is quite nice and like well, well lit, like you could see the dress she was wearing or whatever—
Geoff 40:20
Yeah.
Georgie 40:21
Made it look professional. They were using that to try and sell a shitty version, the product wasn’t even the same. It’s like, how do you stop that? Like, you have to contact them directly and be like, what the fuck are you using me in your marketing for?
Geoff 40:37
Yeah, a common thing that, I guess comes up on Shark Tank is when people come up when people bring an idea to the Shark Tank, and it’s not entirely novel, but they like unique or any kind of that, there’s very, very marginally, unique. And they have a copyright on it. They’re like, yes, we’ve got our patent, copyrights, whatever, if anyone tries and copies this—
Georgie 41:05
Yeah.
Geoff 41:06
We have legal ground. But the feedback is probably really consistent in that, but how much time and money do you want to put into actually litigating like knock offs?
Georgie 41:24
Mm. Okay, yeah.
Geoff 41:25
So if your change and your uniqueness is so minor, like if someone knocks it off, but it’s a minor change, so like, it’s really difficult to litigate, everybody that will knock it off, but it was super complex, like, I don’t know, of, without bad lack of better example, a Tesla, if someone literally knocked off a Tesla, that is going to be one out of like five people who make electric vehicles, you can litigate that you can go look, you’ve just stolen our IP. And they’ll have one every 20 years will come around, possibly trying to knock them off.
Georgie 42:04
Yeah, yeah.
Geoff 42:06
So yeah, it’s an it’s also very interesting, like, man, you take my likeness, but how much is it worth it to me to actually litigate someone taking my likeness for a knockoff?
Georgie 42:18
Yeah, so there’s like two, I think, ways of like viewing something like this. The first one is serious, and I don’t know if we have time to get into it, but it’s sort of where big brands steal artwork, or designs from independent creators and then they use it in their products. So like, for example, H&M, stealing designs from like, you know, a local creator in some, some city, that kind of thing is shit because it’s very hard for the creator to defend themselves.
Geoff 42:49
Yeah.
Georgie 42:49
But the other thing I was thinking about is like, maybe because I do look at a lot of fitness influencers, a lot of like, a lot of brands for active wear, essentially copy the designs of all the different interesting women’s sports bras.
Geoff 43:08
Yeah.
Georgie 43:09
Like with the interesting crisscross design and you think it’s unique to one brand. And then you just see someone else copy it and I’m a bit like, did you copy it, did you really think about it yourself? And they’re all behaving like they’ve done it.
Geoff 43:22
Oh yep.
Georgie 43:23
If you know, like if you know what, which brand really like—
Geoff 43:27
Pioneered it.
Georgie 43:27
Did it first. Yeah.
Geoff 43:30
If you did it first, you’ve made the world a better place lots of people can now—
Georgie 43:35
People are inspired.
Geoff 43:36
Criss cross. Everyone can get the tan lines.
Georgie 43:39
Yeah.
Geoff 43:40
No longer is it Lululemon.
Georgie 43:43
You know? Yeah, I mean, Lululemon has, still has a good rep but I think people just moved on to these more trendy sounding like active wear with more innovative designs because Lululemon is classic kind of everything is relatively simple.
Geoff 43:57
This weird thing called aje that I’ve seen recently pop up.
Georgie 44:01
Yeah, Aje Athletica?
Geoff 44:03
Aje Athletic. Yeah, athletica...
Georgie 44:05
So Aje is like, Aje is a designer brand.
Geoff 44:09
Yeah.
Georgie 44:09
And so they’re they’ve just made like, I believe they just made an active where this brand—
Geoff 44:16
Crop team.
Georgie 44:16
And I think it’s—
Geoff 44:17
Aje Athletica.
Georgie 44:19
I don’t give a shit. It’s kind of like Gucci going Gucci Athletic or something.
Geoff 44:23
Yeah.
Georgie 44:23
That’s what this, that’s what this gave off to me. I was like, why? Why?
Geoff 44:28
We see it in tech all the time, right? The whole copying thing? And it’s sort of like, yeah, sure, like all our apps, like back to Threads and Twitter and Stories and stuff like that.
Georgie 44:40
Yeah.
Geoff 44:41
They’re all, they’re all incestuous.
Georgie 44:43
Direct copy.
Geoff 44:43
Direct copies. Speaking of direct copy, this, this ending is gonna be a direct copy of the last one, I think.
Georgie 44:53
Is it?
Geoff 44:54
Is it? But you can follow us on @toastroastpod on Twitter.
Georgie 44:58
Or, can you? Since we said we weren’t using it anymore. You can find our episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you find your podcasts and the big, big thread?
Geoff 45:10
Nice. And new episodes every Monday. So see you next week.
Georgie 45:17
See you next week.
Geoff 45:18
Bye.